Don't really disagree with most of this, but you're forgetting what you just agreed with me about. Manhattan being exponentially above anybody Vandal has faced let alone did well against. You're equating how long it took him to prep for him.. while forgetting it took that long because he's Manhattan. That IS why it took so long, because again, he's exponentially above anybody Vandal faced. If it took him that long to prep to beat Joe Blow I'd agree with you. Point is, it took that long for Manhattan, but certainly wouldn't take near as long for Vandal, being well well below Manhattan and all.
I'm saying that that entire group together would stomp Ozy into the ground. Mainly due to Barry, Hawkman, and Ollie but still. If Savage can outfight a Flash, Green Arrow, Hawkman, some Arrow sidekicks and Hawkgirl all at once with ease, he should be able to take Ozy down if it turns into a fight.
But this is of course on the extreme off chance Vandal can get past Manhattan. He could technically just nuke the city I guess. Even destroying a portion would probably win the fight for him. I wonder if Manhattan could just negate a blast of that size.
Problem is Ozy never really did fight Manhattan, so it's not like he was able to outright beat him. All Ozy did was put Manhattan in a position where he agreed with Ozy's vision for humanity. That's not exactly beating Manhattan as it is convincing him to do nothing.
So we can't say "Ozy beat Manhattan who is extremely more powerful than Savage" because Manhattan never really brought his full powers against Ozy.
That's just it though, that IS how he had to beat him. He's not going to physically overpower him or something like that. Manhattan is nigh immortal. So even getting Manhattan to go along with his vision and to even know how to get him to do that... considering Manhattan's powers is pretty uber really
If I slapped Mike Tyson in the face, and just before he retaliates I tell him that if he hits me I'll sue him.. and since he doesn't want the legal trouble anymore he decides not to do anything to me.
Would you say that I was able to beat Mike Tyson? Or would you say I was simply able to get one over him?
And that's my point. Ozy was able to manipulate Manhattan into a position he found favorable but he didn't defeat Manhattan.
You can say he "beat" Manhattan but that's not the kind of defeat he'll need to use on Savage. As per forum rules, he needs to actually defeat Savage, not simply convince Savage to not fight him.
Besides, in this thread Savage also has prep and knowledge on Ozy. Manhattan had no such prep or knowledge.
Not really, Savage is extremely powerful in prep, and he cant die really. Seems even after he was turned to dust, he will be coming back. I never said Manhattan could be used in the fight, only that he has access to his tech.
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In order for any life to matter, we all have to matter
He was immortal but clearly could die. He's only coming back because the LoS is gonna use a Lazarus Pit I'm guessing. And given that Manhattan can see the future, he can tell Ozy every single thing Vandal plans to do.
Still, it's doubtful Ozy can do anything in a week's time to stop the Staff of Horus. All Vandal has to do is slam it on the ground and New York is instantly a crater.
If Manhattan saw that, he could possible use a shield generator from his own power like the one Ozy used in reverse to blow everyone up. I remember similar blasts from Manhattan/Ozy machine, so it might not be that hard to reproduce a shield to contain that.
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In order for any life to matter, we all have to matter
But that's conjecture. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. But we know for a fact that Savage can immediately obliterate the entire city by tapping his staff on the ground.
Lazarus pit was destoyed by Nyssa. It seems only Damien has what is left of some of the water. What is interesting also is Malcolm only took a small portion of the sand/ashes.
Ozy. Give him prep, and he will come out on top. The dude is one of the only villains in super hero movies to actually come out on top at the end. He outsmarted every single hero whos known him personally for years, including an immortal omniscient god-like being. Savage blew up a city and beat some heroes in a physical confrontation? Ozy blew up many cities and beat an entire team in physical confrontation while outsmarting a god. Ozy did the impossible.
Savage has not shown himself to be on his level. Yet.
Why is VS vs Ozy turned into VS vs The Watchman-verse.
Also the A-B-C logic on display is giving me a headache. It's equivalent to me saying Lex could kill superman with a k-nite bomb, thus he could totally kill Spider-man with it.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
It also needs to be said Manhattan was never ever omniscient or anything like that. His vision was not absolute. If it was then he'd of known what Ozy was up to before he even came up with his plan. He'd of seen it before anything could be built to stop him or mess with his vision. He did not.
Didn't he have Manhattan helping to construct certain devices?
Let us also not pretend like the state of the world at the time didn't play into his plan, a lot of people were focused on the potential nuclear war and Ozy just took advantage of that.
Not saying he isn't smart, but there were also other factors in play that he had nothing to do with.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Dec 9th, 2015 at 03:34 PM
This is what I've been trying to say all along. Ozy being able to outmaneuver Manhattan was due to a lot of special circumstances that are not applicable in this match.
For one, Manhattan didn't even know someone was out to get him, let alone that that someone was Ozy. Savage specifically knows he's going against Ozy.
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Dec 8th, 2015 06:27 PM
