Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It's pretty clear that Kurse is faster than Hulk too. For every hit Hulk landed Kurse was landing 2-3. Amout of punches also comes to bear.Yet Hulk missed 3 out of 4 attacks while getting hit back. Kurse was blocking Thor's attacks, while landing every one of his.
So you agree that Kurse would beat Hulk in pure h2h?
Originally posted by FrothByte
So you agree that Kurse would beat Hulk in pure h2h?
Hell no.
This is like a rock-paper-scissors scenario.
Kurse is just fast enough, and strong enough to beat a hammerless Thor. Yet, he won't have the strength advantage against Hulk, and speed wouldn't matter much, since he is to big to dodge the way Thor dodges Hulk's attacks.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It's pretty clear that Kurse is faster than Hulk too. For every hit Hulk landed Kurse was landing 2-3. Amout of punches also comes to bear.Yet Hulk missed 3 out of 4 attacks while getting hit back. Kurse was blocking Thor's attacks, while landing every one of his.
That didn't happen on the ground and pound (GnP) tho. Basically every one of Hulk's GnP punches hit, Hulk also hit Thor more than twice the number of GnP hits Kurse had and even managed to land double arm strikes (w/c Kurse was unable to do due to Loki stopping him) as well as a jump-stomp at the start. In fact, on the GnP alone (w/c landed 20 seconds), he managed to basically match Kurse's overall total number of punches landed (Kurse landed a total of 14 hits including the rock throw, Hulk landed 13-14 GnP hits, 2 off screen including the ground stomp from my count).
Basically, Hulk landed as many direct, clean full power hits to a prone Thor as ALL of Kurse's hits combined and yet had much less of an effect on Thor.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hell no.This is like a rock-paper-scissors scenario.
Kurse is just fast enough, and strong enough to beat a hammerless Thor. Yet, he won't have the strength advantage against Hulk, and speed wouldn't matter much, since he is to big to dodge the way Thor dodges Hulk's attacks.
Kurse actually managed to block and dodge Thor's attacks (0:11, 0:37) as well as managed to backhand a bumrushing flying Thor AND deflect Mjolnir at the last split-second while his back was turned. Why wouldn't he be able to dodge/block Hulk's attacks (where Thor was able to dodge and block Hulk's)?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
That didn't happen on the ground and pound (GnP) tho. Basically every one of Hulk's GnP punches hit, Hulk also hit Thor more than twice the number of GnP hits Kurse had and even managed to land double arm strikes (w/c Kurse was unable to do due to Loki stopping him) as well as a jump-stomp at the start. In fact, on the GnP alone (w/c landed 20 seconds), he managed to basically match Kurse's overall total number of punches landed (Kurse landed a total of 14 hits including the rock throw, Hulk landed 13-14 GnP hits, 2 off screen including the ground stomp from my count).Basically, Hulk landed as many direct, clean full power hits to a prone Thor as ALL of Kurse's hits combined and yet had much less of an effect on Thor.
Well Thor actually went unconcious which lead him to unleash God-mode.
Thor was inmovile with Kurse too I agree, but he never went unconcious.
Honestly, let's also remember how terrible Dark World movie was...Could just be PIS.
And again, Thor had a better time with Hulk. He dodged a lot. On the other hand, Kurse landed everyhit wearing Thor down.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well Thor actually went unconcious which lead him to unleash God-mode.Thor was inmovile with Kurse too I agree, but he never went unconcious.
Honestly, let's also remember how terrible Dark World movie was...Could just be PIS.
And again, Thor had a better time with Hulk. He dodged a lot. On the other hand, Kurse landed everyhit wearing Thor down.
He didn't "went unconscious", he was stunned (his eyes were clearly open as Hulk was punching him) but he recovered from it (in fact, we can see Thor slowly recovering from it as he unleashes his charged punch). There is really no indication that going God-mode that time made him recover from damage like he does when he touches his weapon and summons whatever healing power those things give him.
PIS is not an issue here, for that, you'd need contradictory showings and facts/logic that plot ignored for the sake of story. As it is, that is the ONLY showing Thor had vs Kurse, thus it is conclusive.
I already pointed out that the single instance of GnP Hulk poured onto Thor w/c would allow him to bring his full strength to bear matches the number of hits Kurse had in totality. Thor even got several seconds of recovery time every few hits from Kurse while Hulk's GnP gave Thor zero time to recover between those dozen+ hits.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
He didn't "went unconscious", he was stunned (his eyes were clearly open as Hulk was punching him) but he recovered from it (in fact, we can see Thor slowly recovering from it as he unleashes his charged punch). There is really no indication that going God-mode that time made him recover from damage like he does when he touches his weapon and summons whatever healing power those things give him.PIS is not an issue here, for that, you'd need contradictory showings and facts/logic that plot ignored for the sake of story. As it is, that is the ONLY showing Thor had vs Kurse, thus it is conclusive.
I already pointed out that the single instance of GnP Hulk poured onto Thor w/c would allow him to bring his full strength to bear matches the number of hits Kurse had in totality. Thor even got several seconds of recovery time every few hits from Kurse while Hulk's GnP gave Thor zero time to recover between those dozen+ hits.
He lost track of the fight and was having visions. Samething didn't happened with Kurse.
The fact that Thor never used his hammer properly like in the other films makes it PIS.
He also got them against Hulk. And Hulk missed many shots, whilst Kurse didn't. Kurse was blocking attacks while Hulk was receiving them all.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He lost track of the fight and was having visions. Samething didn't happened with Kurse.The fact that Thor never used his hammer properly like in the other films makes it PIS.
He also got them against Hulk. And Hulk missed many shots, whilst Kurse didn't. Kurse was blocking attacks while Hulk was receiving them all.
"Losing track of the fight" is subjective, I could easily say that, with Kurse, the only "visions" he got were stars. Bottom line, Thor recovered from Hulk's GnP within seconds while it took almost a minute to recover from Kurse's. Where Hulk landed as many hits in that one instance of GnP as Kurse's total number of hits in his entire fight with Thor.
No, actually one could argue that Kurse vs Thor was one of the few fights where PIS was not involved. Kurse fought smart and effectively (blocked, dodged, limited Thor's use of his weapon and was relentless in striking Thor, didn't grandstand or monologue and didin't give time to recover at all, w/c is what RL opponents should be doing).
I don't get why you keep bringing back the dodging/missing/etc. here. Those are all completely 100% irrelevant since we have one segment of the fight where Hulk (within a short time) managed to land as many hits as Kurse did in totality. All of which were full-power, direct and clean vs a prone Thor.
Don't know why I have to keep explaining this. Come on, man.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
"Losing track of the fight" is subjective, I could easily say that, with Kurse, the only "visions" he got were stars. Bottom line, Thor recovered from Hulk's GnP within seconds while it took almost a minute to recover from Kurse's. Where Hulk landed as many hits in that one instance of GnP as Kurse's total number of hits in his entire fight with Thor.No, actually one could argue that Kurse vs Thor was one of the few fights where PIS was not involved. Kurse fought smart and effectively (blocked, dodged, limited Thor's use of his weapon and was relentless in striking Thor, didn't grandstand or monologue and didin't give time to recover at all, w/c is what RL opponents should be doing).
I don't get why you keep bringing back the dodging/missing/etc. here. Those are all completely 100% irrelevant since we have one segment of the fight where Hulk (within a short time) managed to land as many hits as Kurse did in totality. All of which were full-power, direct and clean vs a prone Thor.
Don't know why I have to keep explaining this. Come on, man.
Speculation
If Thor would have had his hammer in hand while fighting i could agree. Yet Dark World give us a hammerless Thor (Sure Kurse deflected it away while returning to Thor, but doesn't mean Kurse could take a hammer to the face).
They come to play. Thor got rocked, and punched prior to the scene. He was weak already and being punched by an unharmed Kurse. Whilst on Sakaar, Hulk was harmed and Thor wasn't seriously damaged prior to the scene.
It's like saying that running a mile prior to a race won't affect me in the race.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
SpeculationIf Thor would have had his hammer in hand while fighting i could agree. Yet Dark World give us a hammerless Thor (Sure Kurse deflected it away while returning to Thor, but doesn't mean Kurse could take a hammer to the face).
They come to play. Thor got rocked, and punched prior to the scene. He was weak already and being punched by an unharmed Kurse. Whilst on Sakaar, Hulk was harmed and Thor wasn't seriously damaged prior to the scene.
It's like saying that running a mile prior to a race won't affect me in the race.
Actually, I was pointing out that YOU were speculating (on the "visions"😉 and how I could easily do the same thing.
Bottom line is always the result.
Never said Kurse could take a hammer to the face, I never made this argument. Don't strawman me now.
Hulk never demonstrated as being weakened by being "harmed", he took hits but it seemed like he was getting MORE effective as he was getting hit (makes sense as he's supposed to get stronger as he gets madder) as implied by him catching Thor's hammer and turning the tide of the fight as soon as he got mad enough. So your entire argument of Hulk being "harmed" having a negative effect is completely speculative and is actually provably the opposite of what the evidence shows.
Sprinters actually do warm-ups before a race (https://www.livestrong.com/article/557989-proper-warm-up-for-sprinting/). So your attempt at an analogy might have actually proven me even more right. Funny how that worked.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, I was pointing out that YOU were speculating (on the "visions"😉 and how I could easily do the same thing.Bottom line is always the result.
Never said Kurse could take a hammer to the face, I never made this argument. Don't strawman me now.
Hulk never demonstrated as being weakened by being "harmed", he took hits but it seemed like he was getting MORE effective as he was getting hit (makes sense as he's supposed to get stronger as he gets madder) as implied by him catching Thor's hammer and turning the tide of the fight as soon as he got mad enough. So your entire argument of Hulk being "harmed" having a negative effect is completely speculative and is actually provably the opposite of what the evidence shows.
Sprinters actually do warm-ups before a race (https://www.livestrong.com/article/557989-proper-warm-up-for-sprinting/). So your attempt at an analogy might have actually proven me even more right. Funny how that worked.
Thor clearly had visions in the arena. Against Kurse we are presented with none, therefore it's speculation.
NVM.
But Thor was less harmed, and therefore could take more. Get me?
😂 Wrong analogy. What about this one? You go do weights a day prior to an arm-wrestling competition.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderIt's not just. That implies he barely beat Thor, when he flat out stomped him. Thor wasn't hammerless either. He was just completely unable to utilize it well during Kurses onslaught. Kurses attacks hurt Thor more than Hulks ever did, and there were moments where he dodged and blocked Thors attacks, which means he'd have no trouble doing the same to Hulk. Hell, he was able to react to some of Thors attacks without even looking, which suggest some kind of precog or heightened senses. Kurse stomps Hulk. He really doesn't even struggle.
Kurse is just fast enough, and strong enough to beat a hammerless Thor. Yet, he won't have the strength advantage against Hulk, and speed wouldn't matter much, since he is to big to dodge the way Thor dodges Hulk's attacks.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
It's not just. That implies he barely beat Thor, when he flat out stomped him. Thor wasn't hammerless either. He was just completely unable to utilize it well during Kurses onslaught. Kurses attacks hurt Thor more than Hulks ever did, and there were moments where he dodged and blocked Thors attacks, which means he'd have no trouble doing the same to Hulk. Hell, he was able to react to some of Thors attacks without even looking, which suggest some kind of precog or heightened senses. Kurse stomps Hulk. He really doesn't even struggle.
Again, to me it seems like a Rock-Paper-Scissors scenario.
Kurse is stronger than Thor but also a decent fighter to be able to dodge and make the most of his strength and velocity.
However, Hulk is just a brute beast. Hulk is just too strong for Kurse. And Kurse isn't fast enough nor agile enough to just dodge. Also, i don't see Kurse overpowering Hulk.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thor clearly had visions in the arena. Against Kurse we are presented with none, therefore it's speculation.NVM.
But Thor was less harmed, and therefore could take more. Get me?
😂 Wrong analogy. What about this one? You go do weights a day prior to an arm-wrestling competition.
Yes, but "losing track of the fight" was speculative. W/c I then demonstrated that I could do the same ("see stars"😉. Either way, it is irrelevant. Bottom line is in the results (few seconds recovery vs half a minute).
Except you keep forgetting that Hulk's GnP put in as many punches as Kurse's total number of punches. So your logic of Thor being in better shape prior to Hulk's GnP is irrelevant.
The analogy is still faulty as ppl can lift weights prior to a competition without affecting their performance the next day. But I digress.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yes, but "losing track of the fight" was speculative. W/c I then demonstrated that I could do the same ("see stars"😉. Either way, it is irrelevant. Bottom line is in the results (few seconds recovery vs half a minute).Except you keep forgetting that Hulk's GnP put in as many punches as Kurse's total number of punches. So your logic of Thor being in better shape prior to Hulk's GnP is irrelevant.
The analogy is still faulty as ppl can lift weights prior to a competition without affecting their performance the next day. But I digress.
If you are in better shape it's obvious you could take more punishment Nibe.
I doubt you can properly arm wrestle with muscle soreness.
Either way I see it like this:
Hulk: - Stronger and more durable
Kurse: Better fighter and more agile.
Thor: Jack of all trades
In a proper fight, where Thor doesn't lose Mjolnir, do you think Kurse could win?
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderI do agree that a>b>c logic typically should be in consideration, but thats in scenarios where the combatants have at least some variable abilities and/or weaknesses (which is the entire idea of rock-paper-scissors). Sometimes, C characters powers could actually be more effective in nature than B characters when fighting A character. For example, Sentry (C character) could probably beat Lex (A character) in his kryptonite mech suit whereas Supes (B character) would lose in that fight because of the kryptonite. Despite that, Supes would beat Sentry in a throw down.
Again, to me it seems like a Rock-Paper-Scissors scenario.Kurse is stronger than Thor but also a decent fighter to be able to dodge and make the most of his strength and velocity.
However, Hulk is just a brute beast. Hulk is just too strong for Kurse. And Kurse isn't fast enough nor agile enough to just dodge. Also, i don't see Kurse overpowering Hulk.
Kurse and Hulk are similar enough that they can be compared vs Thor. Both are just flat out brute strength fighters. They're both rock. Kurse is just the more effective and bigger rock. On top of that, Thor was Kurses only real fight we can use as a metric in this thread which makes it impossible to throw out.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I do agree that a>b>c logic typically should be in consideration, but thats in scenarios where the combatants have at least some variable abilities and/or weaknesses (which is the entire idea of rock-paper-scissors). Sometimes, C characters powers could actually be more effective in nature than B characters when fighting A character. For example, Sentry (C character) could probably beat Lex in his kryptonite mech suit whereas Supes would lose in that fight because of the kryptonite. Despite that, Supes would beat Sentry in a throw down.Kurse and Hulk are similar enough that they can be compared vs Thor. Both are just flat out brute strength fighters. They're both rock. Kurse is just the more effective and bigger rock. On top of that, Thor was Kurses only real fight we can use as a metric in this thread which makes it impossible to throw out.
No, you can't really compare Kurse and Hulk.
Kurse isn't a brute beast. He actually thinks and is able to reason. Hulk is just brute and superstrong.
Again, Hulk one-punched the Leviathan. I don't see Kurse being able to stop or take such a force.
I see it like this:
Hulk: - Stronger and more durable
Kurse: Better fighter and more agile.
Thor: Jack of all trades
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If you are in better shape it's obvious you could take more punishment Nibe.I doubt you can properly arm wrestle with muscle soreness.
Either way I see it like this:
Hulk: - Stronger and more durable
Kurse: Better fighter and more agile.
Thor: Jack of all tradesIn a proper fight, where Thor doesn't lose Mjolnir, do you think Kurse could win?
Let's just simplify things so you can get it:
Kurse hit Thor a TOTAL of 14 times. Half of which is spread out and gave Thor some time to recover and the other half within a span of a ground and pound
Hulk hit Thor 14 times on a single ground and pound. With a few hits prior.
Do you think that if Hulk had hit Thor 7 times then given Thor time to recover THEN hit Thor 7 times again, that Thor would be worse off than if Hulk had just hit Tho 14 times consecutively?
How is Thor being in "better shape" prior to the GnP even relevant here? It's simple math man.
Taking your analogy, it's like lifting a day before an arm wrestling match vs lifting DURING the arm wrestling match and then not resting in-between matches.
Provably, Kurse is the better striker, fighter and has more-or-less close to the same level durability as Hulk with regards to how he treated Thor's hits.
And I already answered that last question in my first reply.