there are lots of other examples, but my point is just that the amount of collateral damage caused during a fight isnt always the best way to figure out who wins.
sometimes it might be a good indicator. but not always.
and the only reason darkest knight was able to weaken her is because he was smashing her with planets (which is what you said at first)? not because of the crisis energy he absorbed and was using against her?
my point is just that even though mxys operated on that kind of level he still said manhattan level characters were above him.
unless you think he was lying when he said manhattan was more powerful?
maybe weakened isnt the best word, but i dont think she was at full power in that scene.
So I guess molecule man despite saying I won't let you hurt us, is going to allow the apartment and the woman to get destroyed by his blast? Even Beyonder protected a little flower from a blast. I tell you, some posters should not be allowed to post on certain threads.
in your attempt to troll, you also missed the point, young one.
astner said that collateral damage is the best way to gauge who wins a fight. the best way to gauge power.
owen's blast could have destroyed billions of dimensions, but it caused no damage at all to the apartment they were standing in. so that is one scene of many where the collateral damage argument is worthless.
unless you think owen's energy output is sub apartment level??
Perpetua used all of her power to destroy a single Universe and had to recharge afterwards and Darkest Knight was her equal. Planetary items were damaging her. This is a non-fight. Beyonder erase both of them with a thought.
Collateral damage doesn't dictate who wins a fight but the significance of this battle, this is when you have to look at things like that. She was only capable of destroying a single Universe with all of her power whereas Beyonder can destroy countless Universes with ease and remake them with a thought. The power difference here is HUGE. Its debatable if she can even hurt him. Beyonder stomps both. If this was Eternity or LT and it was said that his maximum is Universal, you all would use it as his cap. Lets do the same here.
but it's quite low to swing into a similar thread and peddling the same bs again
if you have something to say say it in that thread, I'm not gonna type for half an hour to show you again how wrong you are
especially since on panel scans proven
1. dc has infinite universes/multiverses,
2. dc has infinite dimensions
3. dc is composite canon
let's see you try to discredit these 3 facts again
beyonder's energy became the big bang at beyond realm in the end of secret wars 2, and made ONE universe. that's pathetic compare to the super celestials who made infinite multiverses in the sixth dimension
beyond realm view the marvel universe as a droplet of water into the ocean (please log in to view the image)
Nil, view the dc multiverse as germ world, the monitors live in a archetypal world
The Dark Multiverse is a vast, subconscious realm that the main dc multiverse floats on, there are as many dark universes as there are bad thoughts throughout creations
tell me, what evidence is there to prove marvel is even remotely close to dc as far as size is concerned. beyonder is a small god in a small world, beyond realm by all means would be tiny comparing to dc's higher realms
after secret wars 2015, marvel multiverse is not infinite, it's couple thousands, tens of thousands at most (please log in to view the image)
This is the same Brainiac One Million who is casually multiversal. He bottled hundreds of universes futures. He was about to destroy every alternate future plucked from hypertime
This Brainiac bottled hundreds of universes and was about to destroy every alternate future plucked from hypertime
I like to think that the living room is a bubble floating in the infinite dimensions of the multiverse which is a droplet in the Yada Yada yada. I wish both companies would stop with this trash and just make regular ass stories.
As the reader I get completely taken out of the story after my universe died for the 50th time. **** the multiverse and everyone in it. Its just hard for me to give a shit about infinite versions of me.
These are two different arguments. The DC Multiverse had a finite number of universes, 52 to be exact—most of which have been destroyed by now.
Then you supposedly have infinite multiverses outside of the Source Wall, we don't know if this is literal infinity or hyperbole for "a lot." In fact the latter is supported by the claim that only a few trillion multiverses have come to an end. If it was truly infinite you'd expect an infinite multiverses to have come to an end, since any quantifiable probability rate would yield that.
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But it's made clear that they're Non-DC stories, this was implied by the Empty Hand and more recently the Chronicler, who had seen nothing like the DC Multiverse.
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Why do you continue to repeat this point when I already debunked it? They were not talking about spatio-temporal dimensions they were talking about universes.
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When it comes to the actual spatio-temporal dimensions and their extensions (imagination and unimagination) the 6th is the highest.
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Yes, that's the point of Hypertime, to tie all the Crises together. But that doesn't mean that current incarnation of Superman is the same as the Golden Age version of Superman. The only Superman who actually survived a Crisis was Superboy Prime.
DC Comics doesn't have any Celestials. You had the Titans that resided in five-dimensional space, and then you had the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, and the World Forger in six-dimensional space, the latter of which was responsible for the creation of the 4-dimensional DC Multiverse.
This may seem impressive and all but the Beyonder came from a realm that had infinite dimensions, which makes it far more complex in terms of degrees of freedom than anything established in DC comics be it universe or multiverse.
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Pre-retcon Beyonder is in concept very similar to the Overvoid. They're both the incarnation of the totality outside the multiverse, and they were both intrigued by the Multiverse. The difference is that the Overvoid has its degrees of freedom limited to six dimensions.
You're not grasping the scale here. It doesn't matter how many rooms a mansion has, it's always going to be smaller than the planet it's placed on.
What does this even have to do with the thread? Both Pre-retcon Beyonder and Thanos with the Heart of the Universe took place prior to Secret Wars.
Unlike you I'm not defending Marvel because I'm a fanboy, I'm defending it because it's the correct answer based on what we see in the comics.
Last edited by Astner on Dec 28th, 2020 at 02:47 PM
In that scene there was literally zero collateral damage to Owen's apartment, despite the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions: (please log in to view the image)
So only trying to gauge the blast's potency based on the amount of collateral damage it caused would be faulty in that instance.
Here is another example...
A blast from Galactus actually harmed Thanos to an extent, despite ALL the defensive shielding of his ship being in place: (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
...But the blast only caused very minor collateral damage to their surroundings(a small circular crater beneath Thanos, is all.)
So despite a lack of collateral damage in the first scene, we can still infer that the potency of Galactus's blast would have been =/> the explosion of the gas giant that Thanos tanked a few issues later.
tl;dr
Collateral damage is not always a reliable measuring stick when it comes to gauging the potency of energy attacks and such. Makes perfect sense that higher-end reality/energy manipulators would be able to concentrate and contain their attacks so that they still retain full potency, without causing any unwanted 'bleed-over' to their surroundings(ie. collateral damage.)
I still have to read more to catch up to where this is, but this is wrong. Post Crisis Superman and Pre Crisis Superman are the same. He has mentioned events from COIE and events from many years before that time that belonged to Silver Age Superman. Golden Age is a different Superman altogether though. All 3 were from before Crisis and after.
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I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944): (please log in to view the image)
So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.
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