Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Knowing of phoenixes role why are you agreeing with lists which place her at cosmic cube level then?Knowing what you do now why dont you agree that Jean who literally is Phoenix (as ive shown) is at least at the same level as LT if not beyond as X-men Forever states?
It just doesnt make sense. 😉
being the mechanic does not put you above the drivers
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Creating the car for the driver and passengers to exist in does....
yes it does but without the driver it has no purpose and all phoenix does is start the ball rolling eg the big bang beyond that the universse grows.
A referee starts and stops a football game, hee can send the players off, but they will always be more important than him - and if they decide to break the rules they can beat him up, the game does not work well with out him 🙂
It is as AC stated subjective 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
yes it does but without the driver it has no purpose and all phoenix does is start the ball rolling eg the big bang beyond that the universse grows.A referee starts and stops a football game, hee can send the players off, but they will always be more important than him - and if they decide to break the rules they can beat him up, the game does not work well with out him 🙂
It is as AC stated subjective 🙂
But who are you likening to the players?
Yes Phoenix starts the balling rolling and the universe grows but its all made possible by Phoenixes energies. Creation is sustained and derives from Phoenixs energies so the referee position isnt enough. Phoenix would also be the financial backing, the shareholders of the club. Without them it would all crumble.
Goodnight fishies 🙂
Omega point you didn't get that I did a singularity thread in the GDF in April, but none of them understood the math.
and as for Jewish Source books do you know what the midrash is GS I did a thread on that in the Philosophy Forum in June again it got few repies because no one knew of it. 🙂
Keep the Faith🙂
Whirly has to lecture Genetics tmz 🤘
I can't educate you further tonight 😂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
again your understanding of religion is found out - who is the universe created for - God ❌ not really 😄
Says you. Theres more than one religion Whirly. You dont speak for all of them. Instead of playing games why dont you just speak your mind. Be grown up about this whole affair. 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But who are you likening to the players?Yes Phoenix starts the balling rolling and the universe grows but its all made possible by Phoenixes energies. Creation is sustained and derives from Phoenixs energies so the referee position isnt enough. Phoenix would also be the financial backing, the shareholders of the club. Without them it would all crumble.
I will reply to this, so that means her role is purely to serve the fans - she is driven by their needs which are turn driven by abstract concepts - a part of god - they can retconn Phoenix as much as they like. Poor understanding of Religion by you and Claremont just makes the flaws in the Marvel Universe funnier still 🙂
Keep the faith 🙂
stay Whirly 🤘
goodnight 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Goodnight fishies 🙂Omega point you didn't get that I did a singularity thread in the GDF in April, but none of them understood the math.
and as for Jewish Source books do you know what the midrash is GS I did a thread on that in the Philosophy Forum in June again it got few repies because no one knew of it. 🙂
Keep the Faith🙂
Whirly has to lecture Genetics tmz 🤘
I can't educate you further tonight 😂
At the end of the day religion isnt the be all and end all of marvel. You cant apply your religious ideas to the entire marvel cosmology.
Therefore youre ideas on phoenix and its relative role while interesting just really arent applicable when the comics of current continuity show otherwise. 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I will reply to this, so that means her role is purely to serve the fans - she is driven by their needs which are turn driven by abstract concepts - a part of god - they can retconn Phoenix as much as they like. Poor understanding of Religion by you and Claremont just makes the flaws in the Marvel Universe funnier still 🙂Keep the faith 🙂
stay Whirly 🤘
goodnight 🙂
Irrelevant if you disagree with the writers application of religious principles. They are what they are.
Phoenixes actual role and position doesnt fit into your analogy, it was a poor attempt. Especially when you refer to comic books which place your ignition ahead of the driver.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day religion isnt the be all and end all of marvel. You cant apply your religious ideas to the entire marvel cosmology
Why? you did 🙂
Keep the faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
I enjoyed this thanks -
that post kind of ends it as you can see everything is subjective - thats due to observation the greeks first worked out observation affects things - and Heisenberg turned it into the Uncertanty principle witha little help from Niels Bohr in Coppenhagen in 1928 🙂
stay uncertain - its the best way - proof usually is impossible
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Why? you did 🙂Keep the faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
I enjoyed this thanks -
that post kind of ends it as you can see everything is subjective - thats due to observation the greeks first worked out observation affects things - and Heisenberg turned it into the Uncertanty principle witha little help from Niels Bohr in Coppenhagen in 1928 🙂
stay uncertain - its the best way - proof usually is impossible
Irrelevant waffle from a hypocrite. You cant apply religious ideas to the entire marvel cosmology. I talk of phoenix in terms of Kaballah but i dont turn around and apply those principles to other Marvel cosmics unless its done so in the comic.
By looking at your ideas and the analogies you've used they just dont fit in with how phoenix or the other cosmics have been portrayed in the comics therefore they are irrelevant. Nice try. 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant waffle from a hypocrite. You cant apply religious ideas to the entire marvel cosmology. I talk of phoenix in terms of Kaballah but i dont turn around and apply those principles to other Marvel cosmics unless its done so in the comic.By looking at your ideas and the analogies you've used they just dont fit in with how phoenix or the other cosmics have been portrayed in the comics therefore they are irrelevant. Nice try. 😱
- By applying it to the hiearchy you do exactly that 🙂
As for the Kabbalah and irrelevence, I really hate to tell you this and I am a Dyslexic you have been spelling it wrong all this time, there are other spellings that I have playfully used when responding to you but none are spelt the way you use it 🙂 I have been saving this back to make myself laugh 🙂
The Crown part only means all seeing and faith - It has nothing to do with Gods power, which is the third reishin in all interpretations I have ever heard of - this is not the crown - its an aspect of it that enters it when god decides. So Phoenix has a role to do - sadly if it is part of the kether in the "Kabbalah" (note spelling) - its role is eminently understandable and therfore, more bad writing.
Those with the "crown" aspect of the kether (you don't have to have all aspects or all at once as god fills his vessels) - only recieve pleausure from the divine, it has nothing to do with power in any interpretation - again I have kept this back for months, laughing at you poor understanding.
So again your hierarchy concept is flawed - if we are talking understanding those that wear the crown are the ones that understand the role of god most - If we are talking ability to channel power, which most on this forum judge the hierarchy on your wrong as divine understanding does not equate to power even in the "Kabbalah". - ask Madonna 🙂 you can wear the crown without gods will - In this your Phoenix has little autonomy - as our friend Xornetto showed - Phoenix has a function - in that she is massively powerful, but she is only that powerful under certain conditions - i.e. my "referee" analogy only then does she channel the power of the keter and this means only then like with the traditional spectre is she powerful - So if you wish to ever get me to agree with your ideas like Galactus you need at least 2 settings for the Phoenix. Fulfilling Gods unknowable purpose and acting autonomously. That was a lot to type over Coffee and Honey nut Cheerios at breakfast (still a lot less than your essays).
I have enjoyed your ideas though, but you need to actually have read what you discuss and how to spell it 🙂
Keep the faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
An explanation of plasmid vectors from me awaits at 10.00 am for some lucky youngsters 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
- By applying it to the hiearchy you do exactly that 🙂
As for the Kabbalah and irrelevence, I really hate to tell you this and I am a Dyslexic you have been spelling it wrong all this time, there are other spellings that I have playfully used when responding to you but none are spelt the way you use it 🙂 I have been saving this back to make myself laugh 🙂
Says the "knowledgeable" man who spells KETER as KETHER. 😮 😂
If you really were truly well read on the subject (as opposed to a noob who got friendly with google) you'd know that there are a variety of spellings for mystical offshoot that is KABALLAH Cabala, caballa, kabala, kaballa, qaballah. Ok?
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
- The Crown part only means all seeing and faith - It has nothing to do with Gods power, which is the third reishin in all interpretations I have ever heard of - this is not the crown - its an aspect of it that enters it when god decides. So Phoenix has a role to do - sadly if it is part of the kether in the "Kabbalah" (note spelling) - its role is eminently understandable and therfore, more bad writing.Those with the "crown" aspect of the kether (you don't have to have all aspects or all at once as god fills his vessels) - only recieve pleausure from the divine, it has nothing to do with power in any interpretation - again I have kept this back for months, laughing at you poor understanding.
Ok Whirly i am absolutely astounded at what you're trying to pull off here. For someone who doesnt see deabtes in terms of winning and losing you're going to a whole lot of trouble and disappointingly sinking to an all new low to try an discredit my claims. But your attempts have just revealed you as a liar who go to all lengths to try and get one over the competition. Quite sad really. One would expect a person of your age to be above such things to have a healthy focus in life. Oh well. Let the schooling commence:
Whirly for a start you seem to be taking this Kaballah stuff too literally and that really doesnt work for a comic book character based on a few kaballah principles. You also seem to be taking Kaballah and what it means to people in the real world and trying to apply that to what it means to phoenix in the comics again that doesnt work.
You really arent well read on Kaballah your post has made this quite evident. I suspect you have had a quick read on it over the last few weeks for the purpose of debating here which is really quite sad. Lets get this straight. Crown and Keter are the same thing. There are many different levels to The Crown/Keter. Eight in fact. I suspect you've read about one of those levels (a website may have generalised these levels into one compact definition) and taken that as the be all an end all of the Crown. Not so. The Crown Keter represents union with God, the Completion of the Great Work, the end and aim of any mystical experience. So yes you are right in Keter being about receiveing pleasure. But thats just one of the levels im afraid and also what it brings to people in the real world. This is X-men. However there are levels which correspond to power and also relate to the Jean Grey character:
The Long Countenance
Identified with the concept of infinite power. Corresponds to the the superconscious power of will.
Head of Infinity
Power of will to create a new and rectified reality. Where the infinite power to expand and conquer, create, repair and sustain is one with the power to bestow goodness and love, to forgive and make ends. (New Xmen 154 fixing of the broken reality, creation of a new future out of love and forgiveness for Scott "Live Scott, Live"😉
The Concealed
Inheres the ultimate power, ability to clarify and rectify, yet unrectified reality. To redeem the fallen and unworthy and bring into union with the divine consciousness. (Phoenixes "disinfection work" on reality. Its "burning away of what doesnt work" When she exterminates the Termids she says to bumbleboy,the x-men ambassador,that he’s going to experience “total absorption in the White Hot Room” the Crown.)
The Unknowable Head
A level where you're not conscious of your own inner being nor is it known to any consciousness outside of your own (Sound familiar) Before being crowned you are ignorant to your own potential nor is it recognised publicly. (Jean was ignorant to her phoenix potential. She always thought phoenix was a seperate entity and not an extension of her consciousness. She didnt know she had always been phoenix until her death released her phoenix consciousness from within)
The Beard
A bridge between the soul of man and the superconsciousness of the Crown.
These are some of the different levels to the Crown. They represent transcendance, completion and THEREFORE pleasure. Not only did you just skip to the end result and take it for the sum total of the experience but you also need to remember that phoenix in the comics is based off of these principles. I use my knowledge of the Kaballah to help with my understanding of phoenix in marvel. To help explain terminology used in the comics. You're taking it (what you've so obviously googled) and applying it directly to the marvel cosmology which doesnt work because phoenix is only based on it and diverges in some areas
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
-So again your hierarchy concept is flawed - if we are talking understanding those that wear the crown are the ones that understand the role of god most - If we are talking ability to channel power, which most on this forum judge the hierarchy on your wrong as divine understanding does not equate to power even in the "Kabbalah". - ask Madonna 🙂 you can wear the crown without gods will - In this your Phoenix has little autonomy - as our friend Xornetto showed - Phoenix has a function - in that she is massively powerful, but she is only that powerful under certain conditions - i.e. my "referee" analogy only then does she channel the power of the keter and this means only then like with the traditional spectre is she powerful - So if you wish to ever get me to agree with your ideas like Galactus you need at least 2 settings for the Phoenix. Fulfilling Gods unknowable purpose and acting autonomously. That was a lot to type over Coffee and Honey nut Cheerios at breakfast (still a lot less than your essays).
For a start i have already clarified that Phoenix i sbased on Kaballah you cant present the ideas and then find fault when phoenix doesnt match up exactly. I have also clarfied that there are many levels to Keter, more than you seem to be aware of. In real life union with the Crown may or may not equate power but it seems Marvel taken some of the levels literally which suits me just fine. As for likening Jean to Spectre you're right in that they are both emissaries for God, both aspects which serve his will. However as ive clarified with you before, as long as Jean doesnt conflict with her work as phoenix she still can use the power for personal reasons. Such as saving the 616 reality because of her love for Scott. LT is only all powerful under certain conditons, he only has jurisdiction in certain circumstances but that doesnt stop him from being where he is in the hierarchy.
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I have enjoyed your ideas though, but you need to actually have read what you discuss and how to spell it 🙂
It seems you need to choose your online sources with more care Mr Splatt. As for the spelling i think its quite evident that you should be silent on that matter.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Says the "knowledgeable" man who spells KETER as KETHER. 😮 😂
thats because it is
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Kether&meta=
its another way of spelling it.
Whereas your spelling Kaballah is simply wrong. Its spelt "Kabbalah" it has other spellings but not yours.
Its not about winning and losing until you know what things are I cannot argue with you🙂
I am no expert on caballistic issues, that takes a life time - you are revealed accept it - stick to your Wiki its often not the right way GS.
🙂