geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Started by Transfinitum42 pages

Having secured the objective of Round One, that is, having received the acknowledgement of all semi-sentient participants that, under the principles of General Relativity, there is no difference between the statements:

The sun moves and the earth is at rest
or
The earth moves and the sun is at rest;

Having further exposed the hilarious blunders of the howler monkeys, especially with regard to "air" being the cause of the results of Newton's water bucket experiment (ROTFLMAO! Thanks Sleepy, for the best chuckle I've had in weeks!)

We are now prepared for Round II.

Look for it.

"The Shocking New Evidence From Space Telescopes and Sensors of a Geocentric Universe".

Cheers!

Originally posted by chickenlover98
dont believe it its a trick. thats how he gets children into his van 😱 😆

If only I would have known that about him sooner.crybaby

I have had to use Preperation H for the last 3 days just to soothe the pain.cry

Originally posted by dadudemon
If only I would have known that about him sooner.crybaby

I have had to use Preperation H for the last 3 days just to soothe the pain.cry

😆

Originally posted by chickenlover98
😆

Are you laughing at my butthurt because I got butt raped? 🙁

Originally posted by dadudemon
Are you laughing at my butthurt because I got butt raped? 🙁
yes, yes i am. silly fool if you had been following the guidance of chuck this would never have happened. ill tell ini to use lube next time 😆 😆

Trans, are you even going to acknowledge inamilist's attempt to reconcile things with you, or respond to his offer of some basic scientific training? You certainly don't have to if you don't want, but I think it might be more productive than continuing the pointless debate here.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
...

The sun moves and the earth is at rest
or
The earth moves and the sun is at rest;...

Nothing is at rest, and everything moves.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothing is at rest, and everything moves.

This is true all the way down to the atomic level.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Trans, are you even going to acknowledge inamilist's attempt to reconcile things with you, or respond to his offer of some basic scientific training? You certainly don't have to if you don't want, but I think it might be more productive than continuing the pointless debate here.
i dont know if he cares. let him argue his point, i mean hell if ini can crush this retarded theory once and for all ill be happy 🙂

Originally posted by chickenlover98
i dont know if he cares. let him argue his point, i mean hell if ini can crush this retarded theory once and for all ill be happy 🙂

He already has crushed it. Repeatedly. So at this point it's just Trans refusing to acknowledge it, or provide anything new that would support his cause. I'd be much more interested to see him open himself up to legitimate scientific knowledge.

You mentioned him being Catholic, which is odd because Catholics haven't endorsed anything resembling this for centuries. In terms of historical antiquity, this is even beyond Young Earth Creationism, which has only been debunked conclusively for a couple hundred years.

So I'm not sure where he's receiving this flawed religious/scientific propoganda, and it's actually quite sad that he's been influenced by such unreliable sources.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
He already has crushed it. Repeatedly. So at this point it's just Trans refusing to acknowledge it, or provide anything new that would support his cause. I'd be much more interested to see him open himself up to legitimate scientific knowledge.

You mentioned him being Catholic, which is odd because Catholics haven't endorsed anything resembling this for centuries. In terms of historical antiquity, this is even beyond Young Earth Creationism, which has only been debunked conclusively for a couple hundred years.

So I'm not sure where he's receiving this flawed religious/scientific propoganda, and it's actually quite sad that he's been influenced by such unreliable sources.

actually i believe he came to this conclusion on his own. he completely acknowledges that the catholic church rejected this belief, but i think he may believe they were forced to(?) or that the pope made the decision in err. ask him yourself. he hasnt provided anything new, because he has schoolwork and such, plus he doesnt come on much on the weekends. all i can say is he will probably be back with new arguments on monday.

P.S. i think he gets his info from his father but again not quite 100% sure.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
actually i believe he came to this conclusion on his own. he completely acknowledges that the catholic church rejected this belief, but i think he may believe they were forced to(?) or that the pope made the decision in err. ask him yourself. he hasnt provided anything new, because he has schoolwork and such, plus he doesnt come on much on the weekends. all i can say is he will probably be back with new arguments on monday.

P.S. i think he gets his info from his father but again not quite 100% sure.

I don't mean new as in new posts, but new material that isn't flawed science and provides a rational (i.e. not religious or pseudo-scientific) basis for his opinion.

In any case, I feel bad for people like that who are sheltered and get fed lies by their parents (or other adults) without exposure to alternative ideas. Because it's one thing, and not necessarily bad, to have an incorrect opinion. But quite another to hang onto to that opinion with such dogmatic zeal that it wipes any other possibilities away.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I don't mean new as in new posts, but new material that isn't flawed science and provides a rational (i.e. not religious or pseudo-scientific) basis for his opinion.

In any case, I feel bad for people like that who are sheltered and get fed lies by their parents (or other adults) without exposure to alternative ideas. Because it's one thing, and not necessarily bad, to have an incorrect opinion. But quite another to hang onto to that opinion with such dogmatic zeal that it wipes any other possibilities away.

i know what you meant. i meant it to say that, guess it didnt come out right 🙁

i know what you mean, but its hard to disregard what your taught as a child. he has been exposed to the correct knowledge 😐 he chooses to ignore it

Round II: Geocentrism on the Offensive-The Shocking New Evidence

ROUND II: GEOCENTRISM ON THE OFFENSIVE-THE SHOCKING NEW EVIDENCE

In Round One of this debate, we established that, under the principles of General Relativity, physics is unable to physically differentiate between the two statements:

1. The Sun is at rest, and the Earth moves;
2. The Earth is at rest, and the Sun moves.

General Relativity insists that both statements are equally “true”, since both are simply alternate choices of coordinate systems.

While this principle of relativity has been known to physicists for over a century, it still provokes various degrees of shock, fear, anger and denial among the less well-informed, as a review of the previous thread will show clearly.

We have finally gained the (in some cases grudging) admission from all main participants that General Relativity, if true, does in fact constitute a formal refutation of each and all of the arguments advanced in favor of heliocentrism by Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, and their successors, including:

1. Foucault’s pendulum
2. Retrograde motions in the orbits of inner planets
3. Phases of Venus
4. Motions of satellites in near-earth space
5. Stellar parallax

as well as each and every other argument based upon a preferred reference frame or a non-relative motion.

This leads us now to the examination of the question: is General Relativity itself able to withstand the observational facts which have been revealed since its formulation; especially those observational facts associated with space telescopes and other space-based or deep-space observational devices not available to its originators?

WHAT IS AT STAKE?

If General Relativity is true, then we must expect to observe several characteristics of the cosmos, which are logical necessities of the assumptions of the theory.

FIRST, Relativity asserts that space is ISOTROPIC and HOMOGENEOUS, that is, space must look the same no matter in which direction we look (“isotropic”), but the position we occupy in space must itself be in no way “special” or unique (“homogeneous”).

A good way to understand these terms is to picture oneself in a vast desert stretching out in all directions. If one is observing this desert from the top of a hill, then we have an example of ISOTROPY, since the view is the same in all directions, BUT we are in a special place of observation (the hill top).

If, however, we are in the middle of the same desert, with no hill anywhere in sight, then we have an example of HOMOGENEITY (since not only is the view the same in all directions, but our position is not unique in any way).
Keep in mind that General Relativity predicts both an ISOTROPIC and a HOMOGENEOUS universe, that is, it must look the same in all directions, AND we must occupy no sort of special or preferred place when we observe that Universe.

Any observational evidence of either ANISOTROPY (a preferred or unique axis, direction, or non-random periodic distribution of structures in space) or INHOMOGENEITY (a unique or preferred position for the Earth as an observational location) would constitute a REFUTATION of the predictions of the Theory of General Relativity as it is presently understood (for example, including a “Big Bang” and an expanding, infinite Universe, sometimes called “Standard Theory”).

Let us now look at the evidence which has been steadily accumulating since the first deep-space telescopes were turned toward the cosmos in the 1930’s, all the way through the launching of orbital sensors such as the Hubble Space Telescope, the BATSE (Burst and Transient Source Experiment, launched 1991), the COBE (Cosmic Microwave Background Explorer Satellite), and the WMAP (Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe) of 2001, evidence which shows a stunning, continuing, and unexpected stream of data suggesting a universe NOT in keeping with the fundamental predictions of Standard Theory.

EDWARD HUBBLE AND THE REDSHIFT

Edward Hubble, best remembered for the space telescope named after him, conducted research using a 100-inch telescope at Mount Wilson, California in the 1930’s and 40’s. During this research, Hubble made the astounding observation-utterly unexpected by him-that the light emitted from ALL surrounding stars was at the red end of the spectrum (redshifted), seeming to indicate that every object in deep space was moving away from a central point-Earth! Obviously, one immediate explanation was that the Earth occupied a privileged position in relation to the stars, opposing the HOMOGENEOUS notion of the universe predicted by General Relativity. Hubble states,

“Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth… such a favored position is intolerable.”

-”The Observational Approach to Cosmology, Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1937, pp. 50, 51.

Notice how Hubble is seemingly willing to go to any lengths to find a way out of the “trap” the evidence is leading him to-the “intolerable” earth-centered universe. This is a common story in physics, from the Michelson-Morley interferometer experiments of the 1880’s forward: as experiments continue to provide data consistent with a stationary earth, such an interpretation is deemed “intolerable”, and workarounds are found.
Another example of this pre-disposition is well-known physicist and author Stephen Hawking, who seconds Hubble’s views:

“All the evidence that the universe looks the same in whichever direction we look might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it seems that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe.”

-”A Brief History of Time”, Bantam Books, New York, 1988, p.42
Now, of course, a “mainstream” physicist such as Stephan Hawking could not say these things without attempting to refute them-let us remember that any departure from General Relativity’s “acentric” Universe is automatically “intolerable”. Later on the same page he writes:

“There is, however, an alternate explanation: the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy, too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann’s second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption. We believe it only on the grounds of modesty.”

-”A Brief History of Time, Bantam Books, New York, 1988, p.42
And so we are confronted with two shocking truths:
1.) The Earth appears to be at the center of the universe, with all galaxies and stars moving away from it;
2.) The only way that the Earth could not be at the center of the universe would be if the universe looked the same from every galaxy, an assumption for which there is no evidence, and which is advanced strictly upon the basis of “modesty”, not a scientific criteria in the least.

Indeed, one writer has wryly pointed out that Hawking’s argument above is analogous to that of a savage dwelling on a remote island who, noticing parrots in the palm trees, concludes that there must be parrots at the Poles.

On these grounds alone we can conclude that geocentrism is AT LEAST as scientifically defensible a reading of the evidence as is acentrism.

But, as we shall see, the case gets much worse for acentrism, and much better for geocentrism.

THE COPERNICAN DILEMMA

In a 2002 Oxford University Press book titled “The Biggest Bangs: The Mystery of Gamma-Ray Bursts, The Most Violent Explosions in the Universe”, author and astrophysicist Jonathan I. Katz includes a chapter entitled “The Copernican Dilemma”, a title chosen to emphasize the shocking difficulties for anti-geocentrists presented by the analysis of all known and catalogued gamma-ray bursts.

The following quote speaks for itself:

“The uniform distribution of burst arrival directions tells us that the distribution of gamma-ray-burst sources in space is a sphere or spherical shell, with us at the center (some other extremely contrived and implausible distributions are also possible). But Copernicus taught us that we are not in a special preferred position in the universe: Earth is not at the center of the solar system, the Sun is not at the center of the galaxy, and so forth. There is no reason to believe we are at the center of the distribution of gamma-ray bursts. If our instruments are sensitive enough to detect bursts at the edge of spatial distribution, then they should be isotropic on the sky, contrary to observation: if our instruments are less sensitive, then the N------>S^3/2 law should hold, also contrary to observation. That is the Copernican dilemma”.

-”The Biggest Bangs”, Jonathan I. Katz, Oxford University Press 2002, pp. 90-91

Notice the clear and explicit geocentric language regarding ANISOTROPY above- the gamma-ray bursts “should be isotropic on the sky”---but they are not.

This is unambiguous, direct observational evidence AGAINST an “acentric” universe, and IN FAVOR of a geocentric Universe.

There is, as we are about to see, much more.

THE QUASAR SHELLS:

About a decade prior to the discovery of gamma-ray bursts, another astrophysical discovery had begun to provide shocking geocentric implications. Radio telescopes employed in the 1960’s began detecting objects termed “quasars”, or “quasi-stellar radio sources”.

The “quasars” began to present serious problems for Standard Theory almost immediately. First, if the redshifts associated with quasars were interpreted as recessionary velocities (as they indeed are in Standard Theory), some of these objects would have to be achieving velocities approximating the speed of light itself. If so, these objects would have to be among both the furthest out, and the earliest in time, of any objects in the universe.

This assumption creates, in turn, another serious problem.

These quasars would have to be emitting incomprehensible amounts of energy (from 1000 to 10,000 times the combined energy output of an entire galaxy). There is no known way for these energies to be produced and emitted by such small objects under any of the known laws of physics.

But this, amazingly enough, is still not the REALLY bad news for Standard Theory and its “acentric”, isotropic and homogeneous universe.

In 1975, astrophysicist Yatendra P. Varshni published a paper in “Astrophysics and Space Science”, the title of which gives an indication of the monumental implications of the quasars for geocentrism. The title was “The Red Shift Hypothesis for Quasars: Is the Earth the Center of the Universe?” The reasoning behind this title came as a result of Varshni’s extensive work on the spectra of quasars: he found that the 384 catalogued quasars that were known at the time were arranged in concentric spheres around one place in the universe-EARTH.

Varshni writes:

“The quasars in the 57 groups...are arranged on 57 spherical shells with the Earth at the center…this leads us to yet another paradoxical result: namely, that the Earth is the center of the universe.”

---Yatendra P. Varshni, “The Red Shift Hypothesis for Quasars: Is the Earth the Center of the Universe?” Astrophysics and Space Science, 43: (1), (1976), p.3

All through the intervening decades, challenges have been launched against these shocking findings, but no challenge has been able to refute the crucial observational fact: if redshifts are indicators of recessionary velocity, then the “quasar distribution problem” provides direct observational evidence of a geocentric universe, one in which the Earth occupies a central, motionless, and privileged position in direct contradiction to the predictions of Standard Theory.

I will refrain, for now, from posting the additional, multiple experimental data sets that provide even MORE evidence of a geocentric Universe.

I do this for two reasons.

First, in order to avoid the appearance of “overkill”, I would like to give my esteemed opponents a fair chance to answer all of these experimental results, if they can.

Second, I should disclose that I am holding in reserve, for now, the single most powerful, most recent, most shocking, and most irrefutable satellite-derived observational evidence of a geocentric universe.

Cheers!

Sorry dude. That is a load of rubbish. I had to do the orbital physics in college and predict outcomes or locations of planets. This was based on many factors...one of them being that the EARTH orbits the sun.

Much smarter scientists at NASA make much more complicated calculations and launch objects into outer-f**kin' space.

If your orbital physics class did not teach you the basic principle of relativity-that no motions are absolute, that there are no preferred reference frames, and that all motions are relative and can be equally described by a coordinate transformation, then I suggest you ask for your tuition back. As for NASA, please be sure to watch this thread tomorrow, since i intend to post proof that NASA uses a fixed-non-rotating earth centered reference frame for its GPS satellite calculations.
Thank you for posting.

We've had this argument before. With your take on the Theory of Relativity, no one is right or wrong. Everyone is right and wrong.

Your argument doesn't work 👇

The Earth is not the center of the universe. Get over it already.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
We've had this argument before. With your take on the Theory of Relativity, [b]no one is right or wrong. Everyone is right and wrong.

Your argument doesn't work 👇

The Earth is not the center of the universe. Get over it already. [/B]

ok i disagree with trans but lemme say that statement was ****ing retarded. you proved 0

what ?