The Loki fight was quite different. Apoc actually took on Loki for a while and hurt him. Sinister got blasted down by Madelyne Pryor and immediately used tech to defeat her.
That events in that scan is actually a flashback, told by Sinister in the PRESENT. Also, Sinister during that that time, in the scan I posted, already showed capable of shape-shifting and telekinesis, so, he isn't really that far off from his present days power levels anyway.
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point is trading blows with a herald isn't a very big deal and really isn't an effective gauge of power. beating one is a little different story.
actually the tech didn't defeat her and at heart it is the same thing. BOTH needed tech to combat an adversary. the difference -- we never saw if sinister could have defeated maddie. we KNOW apoc couldn't beat -- or even hold -- loki, who is less than a herald . . .
fair enough. anyway, the only way we'll ever really know i suppose is if they square off. personally, it's a fight i'd love to see.
Sinister is cool...one of my favorite characters. However, Apocalypse is certainly capable of destroying what he created, especially with equal prep...Hell, Apoc probably only needs one day to Sinister's week.
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they'd be wrong of course, but they could think that i guess. and again, trading some blows is no big deal. apoc was shown as being unable to beat loki on his own so needed tech. and even then he couldn't hold him.
loki>apoc and loki<herald is all's i'm saying. but that's off-topic and this discussion is going no where. i learned a couple things though, which was the point of my chiming in.
What are you babbling about. Apocalypse was actually shown that he can fight and hurt Loki on his own. Loki didn't do anything in the fight and didn't even hurt Apocalypse. Apocalypse wanted to capture him with tech, that was his goal. Loki saved himself and didn't want to continue the fight. So we can also say, Loki saw that he can't beat and manipulate with Apocalypse, so he left, ran away.
The point is that he went to fight against Loki on his own (and it isn't coincidence since he also faced beings more than just Loki who are in such league). Sinister doesn't even dare to think to face Apocalypse on his own in a fight.
It wasn't said at all that Apoc NEEDED tech to defeat Loki nor that he couldn't defeat Loki, heck, Apoc even stated that he will oppose Loki when and wherever he can.
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babbling?
and . . . this is why i don't debate a character with someone who has said character in their avy or sig.
convenient how you neglect to mention that apoc actually needed caliban to distract and back attack loki so that he could get him into his trap in the first place. why would he need a trap -- or help -- if he was so sure he could simply beat loki? please. but i'll not debate loki v apoc with you. clear where you'll stand on that issue.
what was clear was that not only did apoc PLAN on using tech, he needed HELP to get loki into the trap. and please, show me a scan where apoc actually 'hurt' loki. far as i recall, he grew big and loki ran into him. you think running into something can hurt a god?? one who's had his friggin head CUT OFF??
back to my original point -- apoc needed tech against loki (AND help from caliban), sinister needed tech against goblyn queen. simple as. and who cares who apoc has traded blows with?? spiderman and thing have traded blows with thanos, for gawd's sake. trading blows for a bit is meaningless.
but forget all that. here's your big chance to convert me to the curbstomp you seem to want everyone to think this will be. just name me the mightiest being apoc actually DEFEATED in single combat that will make me believe he is 'soooooo much' more powerful than sinister. cuz it's a fact that AS IT STANDS, apoc has exactly ZERO feats to support that notion . . .
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
please show me where i said sinister could do it on his own. i have REPEATEDLY said apoc has the advantage. however, based on FEATS, this fight is much closer than most seem to want to admit.
cringing in pain?
anyway, shall i bring up some pis moments for apoc to counter this . . .?
he hurt him a lot more than apoc did. course it WAS from behind . . . i wonder what loki could do to apoc if he were given a free shot from behind?
my sentiments exactly.
huh?? he didn't win that fight, not in any definitive way. it too was inconclusive. they both got sucked out into space and apoc flew off. did apoc hurt him? sure. did ik hurt apoc? yes. that fight was no more definitive than the loki fight. but at least apoc didn't use tech . . .
it's quite clear that the only thing apoc really has over sinister is sinister's own words. i can accept that. but please don't go around claiming this is a curbstomp based on powersets or feats, cuz that is most clearly not the case. both have handled the x-men and x-force like children. sinister has easily bested nate and wiped out jean on the astral plane. apoc has had more appearances, but his actual VICTORIES are no more impressive than sinister's.
apoc wins, but it's closer than most want to admit.
Yeah, I know, but leonidas is kidding himself when he said PE Ikaris hurt Apocalypse like Apocalypse hurt him. PE Ikaris didn't do anything in the fight, Apocalypse overwhelmed him and deafeted him quickly.
PE Ikaris saw he can't win the fight and then destroyed the ship.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
no wonder i so rarely debate in apoc threads . . .
sigh . . .
to your "point": show me where i actually quantified the damage they did to each other, please. clearly the explosion to his back hurt apoc. as much as getting stabbed through the body? maybe not, but . . . who cares? hurting is NOT winning, like you want to seem to claim.
unfortunately, the only persons kidding themselves are those who think apoc won that fight in anything resembling a definitive manner . . .
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Sig by Inhuman
Mar 25th, 2008 01:53 AM
