Take a look in the Superman respect thread. There you'll see post-Crisis - and in fact quite recent, Post Crisis - Superman turning invisible and intangible on two seperate occassions.
And Superman has recently travelled several times faster than light.
And as for Kryptonite - it's not a truly lethal weakness anymore, as it was.
He's been getting stronger every issue for a long while.
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The REAL Men on KMC - Whirly, Juntai, Darkcrawler, Avalon...
1. Force powers
2. Lightsaber could cut through Supes most likely
3. Jedi-reflex
However...
1. Superman would rip Vader's armor apart with extreme ease
2. Speedblitz
3. Superman has too many things that would hurt Vader. The breath, the eyes, the strength, etc.
Superman wins. The only way he loses is if Anakin is fast enough to lock on a Force Choke and start zapping away with Force Lightning - which he couldn't do while mechanical since it would just short-circuit him.
Since you're going to keep going out of canon, I'm going to do the same. In the Jedi Knight series, force speed was described as being able to slow down time. Being the sith lord that Vader is, he could simply slow down time, walk up to Supes, and kill him at least 50 times.
The lazers in the starwars universe need no definition, as it is common knowledge that lazers move at the speed of light. Just like most of the arguments here, they are backed up by our knowledge and our understanding, not actually being stated in even universe. As for bullets, they slow those down quite well in the matrix, but does that mean they are as slow as a tortoise. It's merely special effects.
Superman was said to know a plethora of kryptonian martial arts, yet that still never saves him in fights with Batman or darkseid. Both have given him quite the beating. I assume that this mental blockade is the same. Still, from what we've seen in hush, it looks like that kryptonian mumbo jumbo didn't do him a bit of good.
The force is not magic. It is superior to magic. It is literally the power of the universe itself, and hasn't once shown any limitations. As for Superman's heat vision, it has shown limitations, such as barely being able to scorch the moon, whereas the lightsaber can cut through nearly, if not, then anything.
You learn something new every day. Even if he is several times faster than the speed of light, there's still the fact that the jedi deflect several projectiles coming at them(all moving at the speed of light). So that's like what? 15 lazers deflected? 8 or 9x the speed of light?]
Again though, Supes is NOT going to come in at his fastest against Vader(wouldn't matter if he did), but he won't. Now if this were "Zod vs Darth Vader", Vader might have had to worry about that, but Supes would more than likely hold back. Now if Jedi aren't simply that fast, but rather rely on pre-cog, speed would never be a problem.
Projectiles that you can't prove move at light speed (weird thing that vader is moving at light speed but you can still see him, too), and since when did you get to decide the tactics Superman would use in the fight? Its been said before Superman just has too many ways to kill Vader like heat vision (did you really compare heat vision that can scortch a planet with a sword ?), freeze breath, & superspeed
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Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
Now where exactly has he been going out of canon pray tell?
He's not said anything out of DC cannon whatsoever.And I'm afraid that none of Vader's forcepowers will be any good against someone who moves faster than he can even think.
A jedi can only block a laser blast because it moves in a set straight line and it cannot dodge around his lightsabre.
Now Superman on the other hand....
When he moves, time slows down, Flash style....
As he runs towards Vader, because of Vader's pre-cog, the light sbare will be just where Supes is about to run to....
However - Superman can SEE where the light sabre is....
And unlike a blaster shot, he decides to AVOID it.
Now, moving at the speed of light, he decides to approach Vader from the other side....
Now unless Vader can SEE Superman feinting to another side, process this information, move his hand and lightsabre to a new position in order to block Superman's new approach.... all at FASTER THAN LIGHT speeds....
Then Vader is dead.
Vader simply is not fast enough to bring ANY of his powers to play.
A laser beam might travel in a straight line, which means, if you know which direction it is going to go in, and you know it can't deviate from that path, it's easy to deflect.
But against something which is just as fast as that laser beam, but which has intelligence and can decide to move around obstacles by any number of paths....
You're screwed....
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The REAL Men on KMC - Whirly, Juntai, Darkcrawler, Avalon...
Nope. ^^ Got the Star Wars Essential Weapons and Gadgets book in front of me right now.
I find that as relevant as all the guides about the power levels of the DBZ characters, and two of the marvel encyclopedias made(one claiming Spiderman can lift 7 tons). Unless it is officially approved word for word by Lucas and the rest of his team, it's non-canonical.
So let me get this straight: Pion finds how the blasters work out of a Star Wars book that states how the weapons work, I and others point out that neither the blasters or Vader could be moving at light speed as you can see them move, and you haven't shown any proof to prove your contention...
But were just suspose to take you un-proven theory that Vader can move at light speed???
__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
Projectiles that you can't prove move at light speed (weird thing that vader is moving at light speed but you can still see him, too), and since when did you get to decide the tactics Superman would use in the fight? Its been said before Superman just has too many ways to kill Vader like heat vision (did you really compare heat vision that can scortch a planet with a sword ?), freeze breath, & superspeed.
In the movie and the comics, we see Superman moving too. Again, it's merely the choice of special effects. It would only be boring, if we could not see Vader. I'm telling you the tactics Supes always uses. You would have a point, if this were Zod we were discussing, but this is Superman. Superman doesn't kill(not that he'd be able to kill Vader). And yes, I did compare gus geat vision that can barely scorch the moon, to a lightsaber that can easily cut through doors in the range of a 1000 gigatons or megatons. Got a problem?
In the movies and comics, yes we are able to see Superman move. This proves that he can move at a normal (sub-light) speed. We also see Vader move, so he can move at a normal speed as well.
The difference is that in the movie and comics we have seen Superman move at light speed (numerous times in the comics and he did fly fast enough to reverse time in the damn movie!). Vader doesn't have a similar showing ANYWHERE.
What have we proven?
Superman can move as fast as a normal human
So can Vader
Superman can move at the speed of light
Vader can't
Oh, and Pion is right about the blasters. All comic and movie showings support him as well as the Starwars book. You haven't shown any evidence for you position, so he is right until you can offer some proof to the contrary.
__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
KMC Community Forums
There you'll see post-Crisis - and in fact quite recent, Post Crisis - Superman turning invisible and intangible on two seperate occassions.
Feb 21st, 2006 09:08 PM
Good point
Also, I think I'm starting to agree with this pre-cog argument. With every move being predicted, there's no way to win.
?), freeze breath, & superspeed
