The thing is CW Mace performed feats that Shatterpoint and LOE Mace are incapable of. CW Grievous didn't do anything LOE Grievous or Grievous from the Grievous comics couldn't do. Therefor Grievous is the same but Mace is not.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
speed is not the biggest factor in a fight, it helps, but Vader is good enough to not have to be fast. Saying he doesn't have the skill is absolutely ridiculous. Have you ever seen or heard of Darth Vader? Do you not know what he's capable of? GG stands no chance at this.
In most cases id agree with you Subjekt, vader doesnt have to be fast to be powerful But I think this fight is an exception. Greivous wields not one but 4 blades. This in itself would give Vader an extremely difficult time. Then factor in the fact that Greivous uses these blased at lightning speeds, as shown in his fight with ROTS Kenobi. Then add the fact that General Greivous is already physically stronger than Vader. There is no way in hell that Vader is winning a lightsaber fight.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
i can change that if i said that vader parried the attacks of 8 jedi masters and remember that he has the force to enhance his strength which will make him a god at strength even surpassing yoda, why? as himself his strength is incredible and what if he enhanced it with the force? yoda did that and his physical strength triumphs over sidious, imagine what vader would be
Last edited by BoratBorat on Nov 27th, 2006 at 04:55 AM
Those jedi masters sucked sh*t and you know it. Also I dont recall them all attacking him simultaneously - which is basically what GG's 4 blades will do. And dont feed me that force enhanced strength bullsh*t. I dont ever recall Vader using a technique of that sort, so all you have is an unsupported theory.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Wrong, tsui choi was as fast as yoda, and all of them were attacking him madly. And an unsupported theory? wrong, Vader is capable of doing alot of things as he has proven in the battlefield. By the way, bulter swan was strong enough to survive AOTC, sia lan wezz was a decent jedi knight and being able to defend naboo at the age of 15. And lets not forget they actually prepared for this.
Dont give excuses "0 v@d3r nvR Sh0w !t s000 it m3@n H3 DuN H@v3 !t"
especially when he is capable of doing such things,
Time i pull out the quote which will hand you your ass as it did in the dooku vs vader saber match
Around 3.5 ABY, Vader had ordered ASP-19 droids, lightsaber combat droids based off the ASP-series droid, to be produced to fight him in sparring matches. They were faster and stronger than an ordinary man, and programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen fighting styles. Vader defeated them time and again, and thus ordered new, improved batches of them. As his finesse improved, they became too easy to defeat, even in a two-on-one match.
He apparently learned his lesson from his duel with Kenobi, learning how to control his emotions when in combat and finding a way to call upon calculated bursts of the dark side while not being blinded by emotions running amok.
Fighting 8 weak jedi at once is quite different from fighting an elite killing cyborg. I practise Karate, and I can easily beat 4 or 5 low belts at once. However I get my ass handed to me everytime when Ihave to fight the sensei (teacher). Same sort of principles apply. Vader is good, and kudos to him for winning. Hardly means he will beat GG though.
(Also didnt Vader get badly pwned in that fight against the 8 jedi despite winning, or am I thinking of something else?)
Jesus titty f*cking christ. Vader (to my knowledge) has never empowered himself physically through the force before. Provide me a quote or example on where he does and I will happily eat my words. But just saying/assuming he does means nothing in a debate. By your logic I could say that C3P0 knows force crush, and just because we havent seen him use it doesnt mean he cant. See how that is ridiculous?
And? You use this quote often, yet it doesnt really prove anything. The droids were faster and stronger than an ordinary man. Luke isnt faster nor stronger than an ordinary man, yet he put Vader on his ass (literally). Luke doesnt have the knowledge of hundred sword masters yet he was easily able to keep up with and outduel Vader in ROTJ. Now if ROTJ Luke can do this, I see no reason at all why EU GG cant - only to a much higher and deadlier degree.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Yes he got pwned, the time when he is still inexperience and when he got BACKSTABBED
and you have yet to prove that those 8 jedi were weak, especially when tsui choi is as fast as yoda and those jedi have prove themselves, You hate vader dont you,
Yes it does, isnt grievious a droid? By the way, luke mirroed vaders own version of Form V and it proved how powerful vaders djem so is, that it could even put its user on his ass, and lets not forget that vader was ORDERED not to kill luke and that luke was his son.
I love it when people use luke as an excuse when they are losing an arguement, i have seen this so many times, vader vs tyranus etc, maul vs vader, vader runs the gauntlet
Ok, those jedi weren't weak as such, but were in comparison to the lead jedi and sith of the movies. Also Tsui Choi out duelled Vader, even managing to cut his hand off. Proving that vader didnt have enough speed to keep up with him. Admit it, Vader could have and would have been defeated that day had the stormtroopers not arrived.
And no I dont hate Vader. I think he is an awesome character, but I personally think you give him far more credit than he deserves.
So are you saying that because Luke used Form V, he was able to topple Vader (physically)? Great. Greivous has knowledge of all the forms, wields the blades faster and has more physical strength than Luke. There is also the nice fact he has 4 blades. Now, through logical deduction and common sense, there is no way in hell Vader can contend with Greivous in a pure lightsaber duel.
Fair enough. But im sure getting put on your ass and having your hand hacked off was not part of Vaders plan. Luke outduelled Vader, simple as that.
What are you saying exactly? that vaders battles with Luke are irrelevant? Great, so I could say that Dooku's fight with Anakin is irrelevant because I dont like the outcome. Give me a break.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Yea, he lost his hand when he got distracted, we are talking about 8 jedi masters, not 1. So is it safe to assume that dooku lost his arm when he isnt fast enough? no. Yes vader would have died, we are talking about a sith who has only started his training 4 weeks after ROTS and still display amazing and remarkable skills, imagine what TESB vader could do
No, luke demonstrated vaders own form of djem so, and started attacking furiously which is what put him on his ass? you are using a>b>c so how about this, obi wan beat GG and vader beat obi wan, There is something called a saber lock my friend, and notice that obi wan executes cho mai alot? Just to let you know vader does that alot of times and there is also the force to tell you which arm will strike first.
That vader was restrained because he was fighting his own son? that palpatine ordered him not to kill luke, that vader underestimated luke because he won before?
What are you sa Not exactl irrelevant, and by the way, Dooku did underestimated anakin and was over confident which led him to his defeat, the same happened to vader
What im saying is that because Vader won (barely and with the help of troopers) hardly means he will be able to defeat Greivous. To many factors apply.
Its not really an A>B>C argument. Greivous is leagues above Luke. Luke can beat Vader. Now, logically speaking, Greivous should be able to beat Vader as well. Also Obi-wan was out of practice and let himself be killed by Vader. Hardly the same thing.
Doesnt GG's computer programming make all of his moves random and unpredictable - sort of like Vapaad? Could be wrong on that though. Cho Mai is irrelevant, Vader soesnt have anywhere near the speed to execute a move like that. For every limb GG loses its Mustafar all over again for Vader.
Lol, this sounds familiar. Just like what happened in ROTS between Anakin and Dooku. Dooku was told not to kill Anakin, Dooku underestimated Anakin etc etc. yet you would be one of the first to tell me that Anakin won fair and square. Sounds like double standards to me.
See above. Dooku lost fair and square, you enjoy reminding me of that every time the argument comes up. Yet here you are, blatantly saying something different to suit your argument. Give me a break. Sounds like you have a different set of logic for each debate.
But before it is to late? Greivous has already shown to be very resistant to the force - literally dodging force pushes and walking away from Mace's force crush with nothing more than a cough. I doubt that the force will save Vader this time.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
What differences does it make if vader can destroy an entire tank on the battlefield. Resistant to the force? you forget mace DOES NOT and will not use rage while using a dark side power, vader make sure his opponents get killed
Last edited by BoratBorat on Nov 27th, 2006 at 06:44 AM
He has used force crush once that I can think of. This hardly makes him a master of the move and hardly means he can pull it off in the middle of an intense fight. If this move is as godly as you make it out to be, why didnt he kill the emperor with it? Why didnt he kill any random s.o.b with it? I can think of two reasons. A) It is not as good as you make it out to be, there fore will not kill Greivous or B) He doesnt have the skills necessary to execute the move willy nilly. I am leaning towards the latter.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
says who? there is something called backing up a distance then executing the force power. And force powers has been shown to be executed DURING BATTLE. Again, you make GG sound so godly, if so, then why was he WTF pwned with a blaster and WTF pwned by obi wan
why didnt he use it on the emperor? because the emperor knows a defence?
And doesnt have the skills to do it? READ UP ON IT, its an upgraded version of force grip,
o? anc couldnt Vader suspend GG in the air as he suspended tsui choi? then bash GGon th ground time and again?
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
o rampant, i forgot to add this, Vader too uses his sorroundings to kill his opponents and dont attempt to say its bull shit when he has demonstrated this several times in both the movies and the EU
To counter fast-moving opponents, he would use the Force to pull out anything from his surroundings and fling the improvised missiles at his opponent. Without moving a muscle, anything from the venue of the battle could be used as a weapon to crash against Vader's opponents from all directions in a never-ending barrage
Nov 26th, 2006 07:44 PM
