Ok. Mr Masters. One thing you need to realise is that mutants are a sub species of human. They are not a different animal group. That is why they are referred to as HOMO superior. They are just humans with a slightly altered genetic makeup which manifests itself as powers.
Mutants are still a part of humanity my friend, which is why you'll see them referred as such on panel:
With all that in mind, lets get back to the point i established. Unless a mutant is physically superhuman, i.e they have superspeed/reactions/durability, then not only will they have HUMAN reaction times, but also HUMAN durability.
Are you going to argue that because Jubilee can shoot off fireworks, that she is more durable and has better reaction times to a human athlete? Because that’s what you’re ridiculous logic amounts to.
As for your scans about JJ being superhumanly durable and so on, yes you’re quite right, he CAN be. However that is not how he is as standard. JJ has very human durability and reactions. Through an application of his mutant power to alter reality however, he can augment himself.
His death at the hands of Fury perfectly illustrates this. When taken outside of reality, with no clay to mould the sculptor was left powerless. Fury easily killed him because JJ became physically very much human. He still had his powers, he just couldn’t express them, he couldn’t use reality to augment himself beyond a normal human.
Jaspers is only physically superhuman when he has directly applied his power to himself or if he is within one of his reality warps. An area of reality where he has determined the physical laws. All of Mr Masters scans were after a conscious application of JJ’s power.
To put it all into perspective, in a match up with Phoenix with her SUPERHUMAN reaction times she could take him out of the picture before the very human JJ could blink an eye.
Anyone doubt a Phoenixes reaction times?
Check out Jean in action:
She turns around and snatches a bullet out of mid air as it’s fired at Xavier
Nova flies towards her at mach speeds and Rachel not only perceives her, but dodges her attack, catches her and then launches her at Galactus, demonstrating amazing reactions.
Mr Master is hardly the most objective of debators and as such, the scans he posted are out of context. i.e the circumstances behind the showings he has posted have been left out to paint a tainted picture of the Phoenix.
Let’s take Jeans death in New X-men 150 for example.
Did you know that her death was hinted at multiple times way before her death happened?
We were told she had manifested to perform a disinfection of the planet:
Jean verified this and said that the Phoenix dies for a purpose, she dies for the purpose of being reborn, for that is the way of the Phoenix. It is born in blood, flame and sacrifice, but always returns:
Further to the point, death is the way through which Phoenix is reborn into reality and the way it exits it. Jean initially became Phoenix after dying and death always has and always will be the path it takes to manifesting. Wolverine released Jeans Phoenix self by killing her:
She had to die to come back; it is the way of the Phoenix. She also states that she doesn’t know how long the Consciousness will let her stay around; in the same issue she would later be killed by Xorn.
Despite the fact that Jean wields the strongest telepathic force in Marvel (and could therefore have foreseen Xorns intentions), despite the fact that Jean has bathed in stars, shrugged off attacks from an enraged Firelord out to kill her,
Why? Because unlike in said instances where she acting outside of her role the Phoenix dies to reborn as per the way of the Phoenix. It had a purpose elsewhere. A few pages after her death at the hands of Xorneto Jean was reborn into reality 150 years later where she would go on to cut off the terrible Here Comes Tomorrow future and initiate the growth of a new future to replace it.
In a versus match up where Jean will be out to kill her opponent at all costs, she will not die. Nothing can make her die.
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That would be the mis-spelling of a word idiot.
A typo is a typographical error, yes I know you could have never known that.
And your a SOCK, who hasn't posted anything of consequence, except directing your meaningless garbage at me.
I didn't have to include that information about the FURY to make him more powerful SOCKLOCK,
the FURY withstood a Universe being NULLIFIED, and the FURY killed Japsers 616, that's MORE than enough of FEATS to get my point across.
Killing the Heores of Earth in Two years, Two hours or Two MINUTES is NOTHING in comparison with what the FURY was able to do (killin Jim) and resist (the Celestial Nullifier)
So again,
when are you going to add something of importance to this debate, or is your strategy attack Mr M in vain, since you have no input to add in Phoenix's defense?
Mr Master posted some more out of context scans. This time from the Ultraforce crossover.
What Mr Master conveniently forgot to tell you is that the sentient firebird is an avatar of the Phoenix Force. Think of it like one of the abstracts Mbodys, its one and the same as the concepts however it is not the totality, just a representation within reality. Once again an avatar.
Phoenix is a manifestation of the energies of creation. The well of energy that feeds all life and the stars periodically ignites as Dark Phoenix:
In line with the other sources an EXPRESSION of the universal life force. The life force of reality expressed within reality. So once again AVATAR: (please log in to view the image)
Threads with The Phoenix should be banned from KMC.
Not because I dislike the character, but because these threads innevitably turn into name-calling contests, and the EXACT SAME EVIDENCE is brought up in every single one.
A story element which allowed the popular comic selling Phoenix to be used and pitted against Ultraforce and the X-men and also an explanation for Phoenixes showings. Not only was it an avatar of the Force but it was also one operating at a reduced power level, a fact hidden from those who would rather promote ignorance and have you subscribe to their opinion on how things should be, instead of getting to the truth.
Now back to the battle at hand. JJ may have created Fury, however if he was so unstoppable as some would claim, regardless of how adaptable he made the Fury, as a creation that does not possess his full power, a creation that just adapts without being a great cosmic power itself, JJ should have been able to stop it. He couldn’t and he didn’t. He got outsmarted, his weakness exploited and his brains got blown out. Why?
Because regardless of his power level, JJ on panel is limited by his human mind, his life experience and his imagination. Unlike Jean he isn’t guided by a virtually omniscient force that takes the reins when operating at such a high power level gets too much for her human mind to cope with. That is why despite all his power, instead of wiping Fury out of existence, he instead engaged him hand to hand and basically had a very crude physical battle with him shapeshifting into various forms, until he got defeated.
To sum the match up, Jean with her superior reactions could incinerate him before he could blink, before he could consciously initiate his power to bring about physical augmentation.
Jean isn’t bound by the way of the Phoenix in a versus forum matchup, she is in a battle to the death. If she doesn’t want to die, she wont die. Jean has shown she can manipulate all the matter of the universe at once. Any effect Jamie could bring to bear she could undo. He warps the laws of reality to bring about a desired effect. She is one with a power that spawns reality, a power that cant be removed from reality without leaving him powerless. Take Phoenix from reality, you are left with a void.
Because there are limited appearances of the character. Not everyone has read the same Phoenix threads you have, so not everyone has seen the scans.
The same IG scans get posted over and over and thats also understandable because it too has limited appearances in comparison to a character like Spiderman or Wolverine who have their own titles and decades worth of scans to draw from. However when it comes to IG scans being reposted, i dont see you complaining
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It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
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Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.
and again
As well, instances of PIS (plot induce stupidity - see below) and SvFL (Spiderman vs. Firelord - see below) are generally removed from consideration in standard versus debates.
thats for starters ,she was not taken into another dimension in the earth 616 universe correct? she was brought to a different earth ,one which beast says they are not as powerfull there as the 616 universe you have the comics go read them.
we cant mix dc and vertigo can we? or are you making the rules now
and i like it PHOENIX PHANBOY NICE!!!!
Considering Jaspers was NOT fighting to the best of his ability, considering Jaspers was fighting Fury by shapeshifting , you cant hype the Fury up by illustrating the extent of Jaspers' powers and then saying Fury beat him so hes so unstoppable
If youre gonna hype up Fury by using Jaspers beating as reference point, then you must be saying that shapeshifitng and H2H fighting is the full extent of Jaspers combat abilities.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 11th, 2007 05:59 PM
, you cant hype the Fury up by illustrating the extent of Jaspers' powers and then saying Fury beat him so hes so unstoppable 
