Sexy, clearly you missed the whole point behind the speech she gave before fighting him. She had loved her more than anything in the entire world, and would have killed the entire world for her, but The Exile's actions throughout KotOR 2 and the person she had become had made her disappointed in her, and she no longer possessed that kind of love for her. Ask yourself Sexy, if Traya loved her so much, why would she even begin attacking her? She was actually quite clearly going for the win, which was made obvious when she used her levitating sabers trick; one doesn't play to their strengths (which is what traya was doing with such a deadly and unorthodox technique) when holding back.
By the way, wasn't Sion able to cut off Traya's hand with such speed and skill that she wasn't even able to react to it?
Edit - The Exile has also canonically mastered multiple forms, which is pretty impressive, and being a partial wound in the force is much harder to sense than regular beings. The stuff she does throughout KotOR2 was pretty impressive too, and the experience she gains (a hell of a lot of real life battle experience, including some against fellow force users) during the game would have molded her into a pretty awesome warrior, too. The fact that she resisted Malachor V just like Revan did speaks pretty heavily for her will, as well. Really, Sion being outclassed by ther Exile isn't a strike against Sion, it just speaks well for The Exile. Traya also considered her the greatest pupil she had ever trained (which includes Revan).
Last edited by Apollo Cloud on Apr 5th, 2007 at 07:24 PM
No, I meant lethal to each other, lmao. I bet that they'd focus their efforts on trying to kill the other. Then again, Traya had - really - decent and noble goals. Palpatine's more of a bastard.
No, its more the "Screaming for attention" mother/son kinda relationship, Sion is like the red headed step child constantly vying for the attention of "mommy" but keeps getting put on the back burner by the superior siblings(Revan, The Exile) and when that happens he gets pissed.
And the KOTOR comics are starting to heavily imply that the characters Lucien Draay and Kreynda are infact Sion and Kreia, that would make them mother and son and coincidentally they kinda hate each other.
More then the "love" for The Exile it was a test if the Exile couldn't strike her down then she wasn't ready and in that sense was a failure, but I do agree she wasn't holding back.
Thats what we call "acting" Kreia allowed Sion to harm her then she forced her pain on the Exile through the force, by doing this she made herself invaluable to the Exile because in a sense since they have such a strong bond if Kreia died then so did the Exile (presumably) this of course will make the Exile keep the old hag around and not ditch her on some distant world.
No, she learned them, it never says she mastered them, the most I'd rank her is adept at the 6 forms.
It can be inferred that the great darkness that Revan almost died resisting was dispelled since beings like Mira, Hanharr, a slew of random Dark Jedi, and a bunch of Sith troopers could walk on the planet just fine.
Thats nice, but greatest in what sense? I can be greater then someone and they can still me stronger or smarter then me. And really this comes from an lady who hasn't seen or heard from Revan in almost 10 years do you really think she's in a position to judge?
I'm talking about issue #9 with the great cover of Lucien. The butler is a red herring, sure he looks like Sion but its more of a "what Lucien would become." but lets look at the hints:
He's called a "scion" of an important family
He has the "mommy" issues like "Sion"
There's all this talk of Zayne(whom I think is Nihlius) with his "unique" connection to the force
John Jackson Millar (the author) has said that this story "will" reveal some of the Sith Lords of the games back story.
He's already dabbling with the dark side
This is all speculative guess at this point but Im about 80% sure he will become Sion.
Cool, so surely The Exile should be considered pretty powerful, then. Traya also possessed a unique advantage in that she understood The Exile's complex nature really well, and had studied it, making the Exile easier to sense for her. No one else, except Revan and Nihilus would have that advantage.
Where is this said? I thought that Traya simply thought Sion couldn't sense her, but he could and caught her by surprise with the attack.
That's what I heard from Borbarad (Nai Fohl), but whatever, my bad.
Well we know that it remained there for quote some time since it broke Traya, and that was after The Exile had been there (at the end of the Mandalorian wars), so she had indeed resisted the same darkness, though she didn't seem to 'conquer' it like Revan had.
I have no clue, because I can't remember the context it was said in, but people have argued in the past that she meant power, but whatever, ignore this point, because I can't prove it for sure.
I'm sure she would remember her old student pretty well, I mean ten years really isn't that long.
Lol, I think you're looking too far into this. Wasn't it said that Sion's ability (which is what Hazel seems to possess) was unique? I think there's too much support for it being a red hearing.
I'm not doubting that the Exile pretty strong, I could make a case for her, but since she's not allowed in vs. fights it would be pointless.
It's inferred since the bond from that point on, no longer works, the Exile with no fear kills Kreia and doesn't die, so it can be deduced that Kreia was BSing that whole bond crap, especially when you ask the masters about a bond so strong happening so fast they don't know what the hell your talking about.
The Exile wasn't "on" the planet, it was a fleet battle, when the MSG went off it wasn't Malachor she was resisting (and failed) it was all the deaths at that one point screaming out to her in the force.
Considering the last time she saw Revan by her own admission was before the Mando Wars, and given the multitude of power jumps Revan experienced its safe to say she doesn't know Revan's power anymore.
Nope, its an ability Sion learned from Malachor, at first I thought it was Hazel but then I took into account:
A. Hazel appears MUCH older then Sion does
B. Hazel is MUCH thinner then Sion
C. In game Sion's missing eye isn't red
D. Hazel's mechanical arm extends all the was up to his shoulder where as Sion's only comes to his elbow
E. Sion apparently has real legs
F. Finally, knowing JJM he has a penchant for red herrings (see Squint looking like Malak) and the elusive nature he displays on the Dark Horse forums makes me think he likes to put in red herrings to through off the reader.
Lol, since when? Rex was probably not being 100% serious if he said such a thing, and technically she's not much more of an unknown than Revan is, so I don't think she comes under the 'no unknowns' rule.
Nice theory, but it's way out there, and suffers several flaws.
1. I highly doubt Traya would have let Sion attack her, and risk him killing her, just to try and trick The Exile when she could have done so through a number of other methods, which wouldn't have to be so life threatening.
2. I doubt Traya possesses the concentration to project that kind of pain on The Exile while having to suffer getting her hand cut off by Sion.
3. Didn't Traya explain that she doubted the same thing would happen in the future, and that their minds in battle would be focused enough to shield the pain?
4. The bond didn't go away. One of the special feats shared between Traya and The Exile was that any benefit given to one (whether it be stimulants, or force speed etc.) would also be given to the other. No, the bond didn't go away, it seems like Traya's preliminary beliefs about the bond were correct, and that they were able to shield the bad effects given to one another.
But coming to think about it, it may be that Sion simply caught her off guard, so it's not really worth mentioning.
They'd likely never come across a bond so great, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
OK, my bad, forgot about that.
Well if that's the case, then we can't really take anything she says about Revan too seriously, which includes the 'Heart of the Force' thing and all the other verbal fellations of his force connection. I'm sure she'd have no clue what Revan's then current power level was, but I doubt she would have forgotten anything about her greatest and most loved (before The Exile) pupil.
I thought she was under it along with Ragnos, but if the name ever dropped in a topic, and someone posted "lawlz teh exile sucks! and couldn't be so and so" then I could make my case.
If thats the case then your probably right, I rarely played with Traya in my party because of how weak she is in melee combat.
See the difference with that was she was talking about Revan as a padawan since the Exile's question was "What was Revan like as a student." in this case she the only source we have on Revan's early life.
Exactly, but still greatness is subjective, Revan can be stronger then her by leaps and bounds but she can still be greater and based on her appearance in KOTOR 2 and what she's done for the galaxy, she is.
2. Zonama Sekot - a fricking force sensitive planet, almost impossible to harm, and has some pretty awesome raw capabilities.
3. Darth Nihilus - raw power to drain a planet full of force sensitives, can't be sensed by the force, and is immune to direct force attacks.
4. Revan - defeated SF Malak (who was powered up by an entire race) two consecutive times (during KotOR), and then went through a major power surge after regainign his lost memories (post KotOR).
5. Luke Skywalker - manipulated a dovin basal, and owned UnuThul.
6. UnuThul - powered up by an entire race of force sensitives.
7. SF Darth Malak - "powered up by an entire race of force sensitives."
8. Jacen Solo - can create force bubbles that can block turbolaser blasts, gave Luke a run for his money in combat, can manipulate loops in the force, and can become completely invisible and unsensable in the force.
9. Kyp Durron - manipulated Dovin Basals with more ease than Luke.
10. Darth Sidious - was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes could see for a long period of time, and was so powerful that the sheer energies being let off by him in combat were powerful enough to kill nearby stormtroopers.
This list is purely based on who's generally more versed to win in these versus threads, from a combat standpoint.
Last edited by Apollo Cloud on Apr 25th, 2007 at 12:05 PM
Once again, Nebaris, if this list is based on "power", then Sion isn't top ten material. The Exile is above him, and she's not in the top ten most powerful Force users.
Apr 5th, 2007 06:56 PM
