If you recall the new penultimate "Golden Rule" I have recently instated into the MVF Rules Thread, we are to go by what is seen onscreen ONLY.
Neo did not rewrite the Matrix in the movies. He did not show us that he is God while in the Matrix, else he would have just smited Agent Smith and been done with his shenanigans.
Neo has mega kung fu skills, super speed, flight, strength, and some level of precog, IIRC, and nothing more. Period. There will be no more of this "implied skills and abilities" shit when the matches are Matrix characters.
It wasn't on screen? It's bunked.
Still, it's my opinion that these skills are MORE than enough to trump Preston.
I don't see what the first part of the quote has to do with the actual point being dicsussed. I could be missing something, but, I thought the point was to show that Neo adapted by using other techniques, as Jaden was implying of which you posted around the time he was making statements like that. (Right after him, to be exact.)
If that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood. My fault. If you meant that he adapts his Wu Shu/Kung Fu to the current task at hand, I agree.
For Morpheus, he just got faster.
For the ugpraded agents, he got faster and more agressive.
Preston cuts off Preston's face, Neo uses his power to come back to life (as seen on screen) as The One and wrecks Preston, orally, anally and vaginally (he tears one with his uber penis).
I win the thread, using screen-feats. Thread can be closed now.
Actually it wasn't just 'Wu Shu'. He definitely had moves that were used in Karate, TKD, and Judo. At least those were the ones that were obvious to me. Wu Shu itself is not a particular martial art. There are many forms which are constitute different martial arts in their own right. He changes between these as seen with his different stances.
Pretty sure when he said: *makes stupid face* "Whoa, I know Kung Fu", it's then shown for a bit him doing some traditional Kung Fu forms, for a wee bit. Been years since I've watched it though.
Um no it wasn't. The guy is a fight choreographer, you think he only knows Kung Fu/Wushu and nothing else? If thats your only proof then its pretty shit, and doesn't justify your "theres no debating that" attitude. In his dojo fight, he was CLEARLY throwing some karate punches and also some knifehand strikes along with the other stuff I said previously. The feats are there on-screen, Clearly you are wrong.
Also Wushu itself is not a martial arts, but is a colletive term for all the various Chinese martial arts which can vastly differ. So its not "just" Wushu.
I told you there was no debating this. You entire argument is baseless. Sure, they do so stuff from other styles, but they didn't fight with those styles.
And, what's the point of this argument? It doesn't all of a sudden make Neo fight with many different styles, cause he didn't.
And, stop with the "Wu Shu is not a singular martial art", please. Neither is Kung Fu. Neither is Karate. Pretty much everyone here knows that. Call it Chinese Martial arts? Not really.
I'll call it what it really was: Hong Kong Kung Fu. That's a singular, martial art. Not many.
Edit - EvilAngel is correct. Your argument does nothing to change the fact the Preston goes done to Neo in a H2H fight. However, the fact that you're not only reaching and are wrong compounds the uselessness of your argument.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Nov 10th, 2009 at 08:30 PM
You seem to be missing the fact that it's shown ON SCREEN that he knows more styles than that.
This means that he can use those styles. Even without them, his H2H skills are far superior to Prestons. He is stronger, faster and more skilled. Even before he became the one he could dodge bullets and go hand to hand with an agent who is vastly more powerful than a human being. Strong enough to punch through reinforced concrete pillars.
He's also quite evidently on a level with regards to gun skills due to his showing in the lobby and roof top scenes. He also has the abilty to approach gun weilding enemies and take them out without being shot (as shown in the lobby scene)
He would destroy Preston. Who is, after all is said and done, merely a well trained human.
The only argument you can make for Preston to win is hand held weapons as Neo didn't use any in M1. Then again you could also argue that he's already been programmed with the skills for use of those weapons in M1 that he uses in Reloaded and the only thing that improved when he became the "one" is his strength and speed. This is hinted by Morpheus saying "They will never be as strong or as fast as you can be"
Again, i'll try and watch the scene when he's doing his training and see exactly what martial arts are highlighted on the screen. Then it's top level "canon" that we know he is trained in those techniques regardless of whether he used them on screen. (Although I spoke to someone today who is trained in Krav Maga and says that Neo does incorporate aspects of it into his fighting in some scenes although he never specified which)
Neo was pretty badass in the lobby shootout, but Preston is a master of Gun Kata. By knowing where Neo is, Preston will be able to avoid being hit, while returning fire, and we all know that Preston can conduct a symphony orchestra with his pistols.
Gun Kata is a fictional gun-fighting martial art discipline that is a significant part of the film. It is based upon the premise that, given the positions of the participants in a gun battle, the trajectories of fire are statistically predictable. By pure memorization of the positions, one can fire at the most likely location of an enemy without aiming at him in the traditional sense of pointing a gun at a specific target. By the same token, the trajectories of incoming fire are also statistically predictable, so by assuming the appropriate stance, one can keep one's body clear of the most likely way of enemy bullets.
Also, given the fact that all Neo did was kill regular cops, and that Preston killed who were on a whole different level than those cops, yeah, Preston, with his pistols, is a sub God.
IMO, Preston's being able to predict where and when the return fire will come from is all the edge he needs.
Preston 10/10.
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What's being debated is not whether or not he knows them: it's whether or not he will use them. There is no debate as to whether or not he knows tons of martial arts. We know he does.
I agree. I don't understand why people think Neo, sub "The One" has any chance against Preston in a gun shoot out. Some people are trying to give Neo abilitiies he didn't show, as well.
In a H2H fight, John would lose, thought Wouldn't you agree? Even if it were a bladed fight...who would win that?
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Last edited by dadudemon on Nov 11th, 2009 at 03:09 AM
Right right right. He is shown on-screen to be a Mixed Martial Artist, and all you can say is "I told you there was no debating this."
Good argument.
I told you that you were wrong too. Theres no debating this.
What the **** does this even mean? He is shown to be using techniques from other martial arts, and to you, in your brain, in some weird and impossible way, equates to only using Kung Fu. Are you high or trolling?
Um he kinda, you know, did. As shown on-screen. Theres no debating this.
If you previously understood this, then you wouldn't have said he was limited with his styles. Apparently you knew this but still said his styles were limited, yea okay.
Do I care wtf you want to call it? He was shown using various martial arts techniques. Again On-screen evidence. Theres no debating this.
I think that if Neo got close, he'd demolish John, but i also thing that's unlikely. With that in mind, i feel John's more adapt at gun fights, thus i'd give it to him.
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