It was a sarcastic remark. Had something to do w/ an argument we had with Pwnd or whatever his name was (remember him?). I can't find the thread. It's here somewhere, but I'm not wasting any more of my time looking for it.
__________________ “Life is tough, but it is tougher when you’re stupid.” -John Wayne
It may fit Sith well, but every source I've read lists Juyo as a Jedi form of combat- one that only a select few ever get to learn. You see, it's not that Juyo is an inherently 'dark sided' form of combat, but it does make it easier to embrace 'dark sided' emotions, which can subsequently sway a Jedi toward the dark side (hence why it is withheld from most Jedi students.)
Regardless, Yoda's bio states that he is a master of "all" lightsaber styles.
"Vicious and unpredictable, Form VII requires a Jedi to attack under the guidance of controlled passion."
"Proper execution of Juyo seemingly puts a Jedi in violation of one of the Code's core precepts: "There is no emotion, there is peace." However, Form VII masters do not give themselves to emotion blindly. They channel their inner turmoil into a mental forge, which provides the passion to power their raw and furious strikes. A true expert keeps the emotions locked within the forge. Lesser practitioners of the art might allow their emotions to spill out during battle, poisoning their intentions and drawing them into the fury of a dark side rage."
Like I said: Juyo is a Jedi form of combat, but it's more widely adopted by the Sith, because it allows them to better channel their uncontrolled dark sided emotions during battle.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Jul 4th, 2011 at 04:26 AM
How does anything you typed contradict what I said? Even if it is controled emotion and rage you are still using the dark side. And Sidious directly claims it is a "Sith Style" while I have seen nothing that calls it a "Jedi style" specifically since Sidious is one of the most knowledgable FU in all of SW, however that doesn't mean the Jedi didn't adapt it to their use afterall the Sith use Jedi styles as well. The simple fact is to use Juyo one must use their rage... That is simply not the Jedi way!
The fact that every source book I've read explains how a Jedi applies Juyo, is proof enough for me that it is a Jedi form of combat that has simply been more widely adopted by the Sith.
Except it is a form of combat the Jedi teach to a select few- so this statement is actually incorrect.
As the excerpt I posted says: masters of Juyo do not give themselves over to their emotions blindly- instead, they utilize said emotions as a 'weapon of the light'.
So because you believe it is a Jedi form it is? Sidious directly refers to it as a Sith Style and, out side of pure speculation, there is no reason to disbelieve him.
Except using one's rage is not the Jedi way been as it directly contradicts their code.
Where are you getting the statement "weapon of light" from?
You're completely ignoring the fact that every source book lists Juyo as a Jedi form of combat, and clinging to Palpatine's comment as though it, in some way, supersedes the source books themselves.
False. The teaching of Juyo IS permitted amongst Jedi- but only a select few are chosen to learn it.
From Mace's statement regarding Vaapad- after all, Juyo and Vaapad tap into the exact same reservoir of emotions.
And I'll ask again. What book specifically refers to Juyo as a Jedi Style/Form rather than a Light Saber form?
I never said it wasn't permitted by the Jedi. I said using rage, which accroding to this battlemaster one must to fully use Juyo, goes against the Jedi Code.
Vaapad was specifically created by Windu to channel these emotions. If Juyo already did this why did Mace have to create Vaapad rather than use Juyo?
Any book that references the 7 forms of lightsaber combat...? But specifically, Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force spells it out pretty blatantly.
No, it does not:
"Proper execution of Juyo seemingly puts a Jedi in violation of one of the Code's core precepts: "There is no emotion, there is peace." However, Form VII masters do not give themselves to emotion blindly. They channel their inner turmoil into a mental forge, which provides the passion to power their raw and furious strikes. A true expert keeps the emotions locked within the forge. Lesser practitioners of the art might allow their emotions to spill out during battle, poisoning their intentions and drawing them into the fury of a dark side rage."
Per the above, Juyo only goes against the Code IF the Jedi utilizing it allows their uninhibited emotions to spill out/control them during battle. Otherwise, it is simply another form of [Jedi] lightsaber combat.
No. A Juyo master does channel their inner darkness- ergo the "mental forge" referenced above. The only difference between Vaapad and Juyo, is that Vaapad also channels an opponent's darkness and turns it against them.
Like Sidious's quote that is an in-universe source and I feel safe saying that Sidious it the more knowledgable. Furthermore, it does not refer to Juyo specifically as a Jedi Style but rather as a style of lightsaber combat.
"You will not truly be using Juyo until you allow excitement, passion , and rage to color your actions."
"There is no passion , there is serenity."
That's a glairing contradiction.
Dodging. I will repeat my question, if it did that then why did Mace Windu feel the need to create a new form to do that for him?
Also there is no mention in that excerpt about channeling the darkness into a weapon of light as you claimed. Sure they lock away the emotions and then use them, but their is no mention of converting it into light as Mace mentions Vaapad does.
No shyte. But the book is referring to how a Jedi applies Juyo in combat. In fact, every source book I've read references how a Jedi applies the form- not a Sith.
Trying to use a single comment from Palpatine, even though said comment was contradicted in the very next paragraph by the book itself is an enormously skewed line of 'logic'.
Obviously not. As the source I've been referencing, along with every other source, notes: so long as you control your emotions, and they do not control you, you are not in violation of the code. Common sense dictates that if the study of Juyo put a Jedi in violation of the code, it would not be a form the Jedi teach to students. Simple.
Odd that you would say I 'dodged' your question, when I answered it.
The book blatantly states that Juyo allows it's master to channel their emotions in battle. Thus, the only discernible difference between it, and Vaapad, is that Vaapad also allows it's master to channel an opponents emotions/darkness in battle. End of story.
We know a Jedi-Juyo-master channels their raw emotions in battle- and as long as they remain in control of said emotions, we know that they are not swayed by the dark side/in violation of the code. So again: common sense dictates that the Jedi in question must be channeling their emotions into a 'weapon of the light', as opposed to a 'weapon of the dark'.
Every source book aslo refrences how Jedi apply the form Niman as well despite the fact that the Jedi did not develop it so in the end it's irrelevent.
Post this "contradiction" then.
No you dodged it. But I'll ask a third time. Why did Mace devolp Vaapad if Juyo already allows one to channel one's own darkness into light?
Strange idea of common sense. Considering that there are several Jedi who use the dark side despite the fact that they remain in control of their emotions and don't fall to it.
Last edited by ares834 on Jul 6th, 2011 at 09:23 PM
Then why the fuk did you ask for a book that referred to it as such?
I have. Multiple times. You've simply been ignoring it, because you think Palpatine's comment supersedes it.
The source states that Juyo seemingly (key word) puts a Jedi in violation of the code- but then goes on to explain why/how true masters of the form are not in violation of the code. Like I said before: if Juyo did violate the code, the Jedi would NOT teach it to ANYONE- it would be a forbidden style. Just like force lightning is a forbidden force technique.
Good God.
For the THIRD time, I'll answer this question: THE ONLY DISCERNIBLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUYO AND VAAPAD IS THAT VAAPAD ALSO ALLOWS ITS USER TO CHANNEL AN OPPONENT'S DARKNESS IN BATTLE.
As was blatantly spelled out in the book: a Juyo master DOES channel their inner emotions, and IS in control of them. Why on earth you are arguing with a fact that was specifically stated in a canon source is entirely beyond me.
And which Jedi would that/those be?
Regardless, that is essentially what I said: despite the seemingly 'dark' feelings a Jedi might be harnessing whilst using Juyo, their control over those feelings is what allows them to use Juyo as a 'weapon of the light'. Only lesser practitioners of the form allow those uncontrolled feelings to spill out during battle, subsequently leading them toward the dark side.
Jul 2nd, 2011 04:26 PM
