If I recall Sauron is on the same level as Gandalf and Saruman, probably more powerful but not incredibly so. They are the same 'species' as far as that term can be applied. Its kind of like the One Ring is the only thing that made him into the threat he was.
But yeah, as far as the movies go he was pretty much just a tall guy in heavy platemail and a mean swing.
And you just defeated your own argument. "Portrayal is huge." What has Sauron done in a combat scenario, other than swing a mace around? Absolutely nothing.
Voldemort meanwhile has done much more. Sauron will lift his mace and before he can bring it back down, his body will be dropping to the floor, dead from Avada Kedavra.
Saruman and Gandalf are Maia stuck in Man form. Their power was purposefully limited by Eru to avoid another Beleriand. Sauron has no such restraints.
And you seem to be under the impression that because nobody within LotR could defeat Sauron easily, that a being from another fantasy world entirely can't. Lord of the Rings doesn't own the rights to "the most evil villain who can't be defeated by anyone ever" patent. Sauron will be killed by Avada Kedavra here. Very, very fast.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yeah man it's really badass to be a sniveling coward hiding behind a massive army.
Which he is not. He is not more powerful than Voldemort in combat.
Yes, although he has a few more showings in the books than he does in the movies. In fact, IIRC, in the books when Isildur defeated him, he was weaker than he was in his prime.
Orly? Care to demonstrate how powerful he was?
It's funny how someone can talk for so long without really saying anything, you're a broken record who seems to be incapable of even attempting to prove his claims.
He was shown to singlehandedly change the landscape of the battle through his power. Like I said portrayal is huge and it's very clear.
You haven't proven he can kill him based off this spell which works against humans. By your logic any mage in either verse could probably kill Sauron which screams at my brain with his twisted logic.
We saw Gandalf defeat a balrog quite easily and in also easily best saruman. Who cares if they are limited they were still powerful and effective.
You've no proof and by your logic any mage in either verse can do so. Killing humans and the like isn't a very convincing argument.
What movie were you watching ? He wasn't hiding behind an army he was turning the tide singlehandedly.
Far more powerful than Voldemort. It's not even close imo.
So you admit he died in the same manner so you have no point. He might be weaker than in his prime but he's still far more powerful than Voldemort.
Powerful enough enough to temporarily change the tide of an epic battle soon as he was directly involved. Powerful enough while still dead to hold an entire world captive, raise an army, ensnare saruman a powerful mage in his own right to submit to his will, and powerful enough to scare the crap out of an entire world that would rapestomp Harry Potter's armies.
Change the landscape? He knocked a few elves and men around. Whoopty ****ing doo. Portrayal is huge? What portrayal? That Sauron personally is a powerful foe against normal elves and men? That is absolutely true. That also means nothing when talking about another verse, Voldemort was not at that battle, so your desperate clinging to it as evidence proves nothing.
Avada Kedavra might actually not work on Sauron, I will admit that, not due to power per say, but due to Sauron's nature as a Maia, who technically cannot die.
Yeah man, Gandalf beat that balrog easily. Oh wait, but he actually ****ing DIED after killing it, so it was not easily. He did easily best Saruman, yes, but Saruman's feats in personal combat basically amount to some basic telekinesis.
Sauron in the movies only killed humans and elves.
He needed the army because he cannot turn the tide of a war himself. Which is shown quite clearly when he lost after joining the battle, and was reduced to a shell of his former self. Yeah man, he "turned the tide" alright.
Your opinion means very little when objective evidence shows Voldemort to be far more powerful, you haven't proved a damn thing.
Oh no no no no, he was defeated three times, not the same way each time. Prove he is more powerful than Voldemort.
And then lose. Whoa. He killed a few dozen normal mortals, and then lost. Hold an entire world captive? Hahahahahano. Sauron was pretty irrelevant until the Ring turned up again, he basically spent all his time building his armies in Mordor before it showed up. Ensnare Saruman? Saruman defected OF HIS OWN WILL, he was not controlled by Sauron. He himself did not scare Middle Earth, he himself was not that powerful, not in combat, the One Ring is a thing of control, not destructive power, he would be able to have full control over the other rings of oh **** this now I'm repeating myself, I explained what the One Ring did before, go reread my previous post. I will not repeat myself to someone who won't even listen.
So because Sauron tooled an army, you think he can tool Voldemort? Where is the connection between these two things? One is an army of flesh and steel, the other is a wizard who shoots unblockable death out of a wand.
The point of this forum is to pit characters from different movies against each other. There's a reason the whole "magic/the Force/technology doesn't work here" argument isn't used. In this match, neither opponent is immune to the magic or physics of the other. That means Sauron mace vs. Avada Kedavra.
The death beam wins every time. Not to mention all the other tricks up Voldemort's sleeve. He could vanish the mace in a second for one.
Holy shit, you're either that oblivious, or you're that dumb. A.) Gandalf did not defeat the Balrog "easily". It took several days and cost him his life. B.) Saruman is not Voldemort. I don't think you're understanding the fundamental difference between LotR magic and Harry Potter magic. In a combat scenario, Harry Potter magic is infinitely more versatile and deadly. With cross-fiction barriers disabled, Voldemort would destroy every single being the LotR movies.
No, you're just that dumb. How did you even come to this conclusion? We're talking about strictly movie appearances, and Sauron has squat next to Voldemort. Only the most fearful adn incompetent of wizards in Harry Potter would fall to movie-Sauron, like Wormtail or Mundungus Fletcher. Any half-decent wizard would Wingardium Leviosa Sauron's mace ala 11-year old Ron---for starters. The ones who didn't feel like playing around would simply send a killing curse at him.
Remember: there are no inter-fiction barriers here. Harry Potter magic doesn't cancel out the Force, the Force doesn't cancel out Sauron's powers, and Sauron's powers don't cancel out Harry Potter magic. It's all unblockable.
Which doesn't amount to a bucket of spit for Sauron, as the only combative thing the movies ever show him doing is swinging a mace. Yeah, Voldemort could never deal with a blunt object.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
I never stated they were in the verse but the lords of nazgul were, as were skilled marksmen elves, badass warriors, orcs, balrogs, and competent sorcerers. He was all greater than all of these not combined but definitely vastly more powerful and more formidable than one on one. Voldemort is busy struggling with a way to kill Harry Potter a kid with acne all over his face. Voldemort also is in complete control making it that much easier yet the guy is still coming up short.
Gandalf was even more formidable as the white than the grey and yes he defeated it nonetheless which is very impressive. I mean who has Voldemort defeated that is similarly impressive.
Saruman was still effective and tk still does the job alright.
Sauron has implied power and he was killed due to luck. If one person can drastically change the landscape of an entire battle with gigantic armies it shouldn't be hard to figure out he's a very powerful scary kinda guy.
Who has Voldemort killed ? I mean he spends most of his movies chasing an adolescent child around even after he assumes complete power yet you're impressed by this ?
He can't solo an army but can change the momentum himself. I mean they were shitting their pants and he was mauling droves of them. It was explained during narration because it's implied he's a huge badass the entire three movies are them making sure he doesn't return. Did you miss that ?
I already have.
Sauron forged the ring it was his item which bound the entire planet and it was connected to him. How slow witted are you ? I mean honestly you seem completely lost and want to compare him to a tyrant whose ultimate goal is to kill a teenager he's far more powerful than but comes up short all the time.
Unblockable death out of a wand because it sure killed Harry Potter and dumbledore, amiright ? Who has the guy killed that impressed you ? Go ahead name somebody.
Wrong, we also argue implied power we don't accept this death spell kills anyone and everyone from alternate worlds just because it killed a few humans.
Gandalf did defeat him not at his best his best was gandalf the white. That's easily more impressive than any of Voldemort's kills.
You calling someone else slow is juicefully ironic. No, Voldemort would not. His death spells can't even kill and slaughter teenagers. It's weak by comparison.
See this is why I will always beat someone like you in a debate. You are so emotional you seek to insult someone who disagrees with you. Keep it together I don't need your internet emotions affecting me.
We also go by portrayal not some warped logic that these death spells are instant death to anyone and everyone from any other movie. Please use some common sense you are embarrassing yourself.
I never said it cancels it out Sauron is simply too powerful to fall down to this.
by your logic any wizard in lotr could beat him because all he did was swing a mace. You simply don't grasp what you watch and need feats otherwise you;re simply lost on character portrayals and implied power.
Uh, Avada Kedavra did kill Dumbledore, genius. From Snape.
So then how do you argue it at all? It's all supposition and opinion when you start crossing characters and entities from fictional universes. Seriously, how can we possibly, and accurately, measure LotR magic vs. Sauron's magic? Don't pussyfoot around this question. Answer it.
Fascinating, Gandalf went hand-to-hand with a Balrog and took him several days at the cost of his life. You think Voldemort would engage in fisticuffs? He has a wand that can literally manipulate the physical universe. With no inter-universe barriers, he can literally douse the Balrog with water and apparate away.
Can you not read? I didn't call you slow; I called you dumb.
And it's weak in comparison to... what exactly? A mace? Don't make me laugh. An 11-year old boy levitated a club out of a troll's hands. The most powerful Dark wizard who ever lived can levitate a mace out of Sauron's hands, and Sauron has no way to deflect the spell.
Or do you think that the magic that prevented Harry's death applies to Sauron? Do you honestly believe that Sauron's mother died protecting him and so is imbued with the same magical protection that saved Harry? Do you honestly believe that Sauron is a Horcrux that will protect him from a Killing Curse just like it did Harry? Do you honestly believe that Sauron is in possession of the Elder Wand and it recognizes him as his rightful master? Or are you just so dense that you don't realize that creating barriers between fictional universes to inhibit your chosen side's leads to a debate that is composed of pure opinion, and is thus useless?
If you need to tell me this it means I am having an affect. Try toughening your skin and growing a pair you quasi-stoic sissy.
"Go by portrayal". I know that's what we do, I've been doing it this whole time. Sauron is portrayed doing nothing combative outside using a melee weapon augmented by the Ring's power. Voldemort is portrayed (as are his minions and little children) to be able teleport, levitate objects, vanish solid matter, create solid matter, manipulate the physics of solid matter, torture with a word, mind-rape with a word, kill with a word, create infernos, stun, explode, and cut things with a flick of their wrist. And Sauron has... a mace.
Or have you been trying to argue that Sauron's alchemical and telepathic abilities are somehow indicative of technical prowess, invulnerability, and super speed. Well so far, Fellowship of the Ring showed he's capable of swinging a mace at non-magical, non-teleporting, non-one hit killer, having his hand (the one in closest proximity to the nigh-indestructible Ring) cut off by a sword, and we've seen his penchant for slowly reaching towards downed enemies with sharp blades in their hands. That last one also shows us his lack of foresight, reflexes, and combative stratagem.
No, I'm open to them. But I also recognize that if we're to have a discussion about magical beings from completely separate and unrelated universes, we can't be placing limitations on their abilities simply because we "think that's how it should happen," or "this is what I feel is implied." That's why in every Star Wars vs. Harry Potter thread, the Force can't block magic, and magic can't block the Force. Same principle applies here: Sauron's body can deflect Harry Potter magic, and Voldemort can't deflect Sauron's magic. If we start doing that then we have everyone opining about what they think blocks this spell, or this Force attack, or this... whatever magical offensive weapon Sauron has (and doesn't seem to ever use).
No barriers.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
He allowed it to. He wanted to die, genius. That's not the same thing as being genuinely beaten in battle.
It's simple you decide based off each set of movies who is more powerful. the obvious answer is Sauron. We saw his boot easily crushed a sword simply by stepping on it, his swings were sending waves of people back, and instilling doubt in an entire army which would have Voldemort hiding under his own covers.
Gandalf fell with him without any of his weapons and got them back and still beat him. That's very impressive considering an entire room of orcs fled in panic and gandalf's entire crew couldn't affect this balrog. That's how powerful Gandalf is.
I don't see that as being that easy and Voldemort can't kill foes this easily and hasn't ever beaten anything nearly as impressive as a balrog whereas Gandalf went blow for blow with him and won.
Being slow is being dumb so I pit your brain at the moment. I am running circles around you so it's ironic you are calling me slow, sport.
Gandalf can also summon other's 'weapons out of their hands as can Sauruman. It's not like they can do so against sauron I mean use a shred of common sense. If he were some easily defeatable foe why would an entire army freak out when he merely stepped onto the battlefield ? You aren't bright I take it ? LOL.
I believe Sauron is powerful enough for this death curse to have no effect on him just like in his own universe there are exceptions. Common sense for the win.
It's easy to surmise based on harry potter universe and this one that sauron's forces and powers are greater when the death spell can't even affect harry potter by voldemort.
You aren't and will so learn your words are humorous to me. Your emotional outbursts tickle me pink I am in your head after a few posts. Poor thing.
Yes, and we've also seen gandalf, balrogs, ring wraiths, saruman, etc. all who pale in comparison to Sauron and his ring of power. You don't get it I do. Pity.
Sauron was luckily bested when he crouched down. That isn't happening here. This wasn't something that was easy to do.
Voldemort is so beside himself he still failed to best Harry Potter with another's wand and is simply beside himself. The guy isn't as powerful as sauron and doesn't need to search for wands or weapons to kill a teen like Voldemort.
We always imply what is more powerful in our minds and since the death spell isn't unbeatable in their own verse against mere humans why should it be against the most powerful character in lord of the rings on screen.
Exactly why i think we should have his book feats count, swinging a mace and getting your finger cut off dont give you ANY reason to put someone in a thread unless its ment to be spite......
Seriously, include the books, whoever made this i dont wanna check, im lazy.......
Anyways, dousing a balrog with water wouldnt work, its a spirit cloaked in shadow and fire ^.^
And theres the fact its hellfire, cant be put out, it has a sword, and can make a whip of fire, FLY, and breath fire........
Balrogs are by NO means lightweights, i will personally bring up every source i can think of off the top of my head, THEN make a wiki link to balrogs, for ANYBODY who says Balrogs are things that anyone can kill........
Also, Sauron did NOT kill Men and Elves, he killed Numenoreans (uber men that literally helped storm Hell itself, Elendil was 7'11, wielded a sword that inspired fear in all but himself, his sons, Sauron, and Gil Galad), and Noldor, the elites of the elvish armies, they were the ones who followed Feanor over the sea to Beleriand
Honestly, you cant find a bigger LOTR fanboy than me, but Voldy wins this unless its book Sauron
KMC Community Forums
Dec 30th, 2010 11:19 PM
