quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nephthys
By guessing the flight trajectories. You can't predict where a bullets going to end up if the barrel isn't even aimed at you.

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But one can, however, memorize the position of their opponent and judge where and when incoming fire will arrive.

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Originally posted by Nephthys


The ending point will not be the same. Instead of going from point A to point B, the bullet will go straight to point C. Blade, who has dodged point B, still gets hit at point C.

And by pointing her gun in another direction Blade will not know where point B even is, so he won't be able to dodge it anyway.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its good to see that the members of this sub-forum are as stupid as ever. Kudos!

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Originally posted by jaden101
You can keep repeating this point all you want but it's completely wrong and I've proven that by using the training scene to give the definition of gun kata using TRAJECTORIES (or as you would put it...what happens in between) and the dictionary definition of trajectories.

You're wrong...It's that simple...I don't see why it's so difficult to understand what a bullet trajectory is and how it's relevant given what is stated blatently on screen.

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Cause I quite clearly explained the fallacy of your exact argument in a previous thread.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
No, you can't because he has no fricking idea where its going to end up becuase the flipping gun isn't even pointing at him.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I guess I'm stupid for not reading that thread then.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
I can understand why you don't want to actually argue with me though. I can be rather daunting.

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Originally posted by dadudemon
lol


That's not how I envisioned it, in 3D space, at all. You forgot up, down, backwards, and forwards. You have him moving only in two, very linear, and uncharacteristic direction.

Also, the bullets wouldn't travel in a perfect circle and, in fact, it only happened once: fox shot a bullet at the end there that killed everyone.

All the other shots curve, more, at the beginning of the shot, and, as they should, as it travels, the shot becomes less curved, OR, vice versa.



Despite that fact that none of that could be done in the real world, with any kind of bullet.



Still doesn't change anything about the bullet. And, you're drawings are wrong, as well.

Not only does it incorrectly assume Preston is dodging any bullets, it also assumes that he will dodge right into the bullet's path when there's many many other locations that he could and would dodge into.


For some reason, an entire room of 10 or more men, armed with fully automatics, missed him completely. This is dealing with many more trajectories, at once, with multiple bullets from each trajectory.

This is on top of him not only dodging them, but not even getting nicked by them. Meaning, he's dodging them by a comfortable margin.

Now, assuming your drawing above (which is not a perfect ellipsoid, it actually elongates at the beginning or end, in the movie, as it should, except for one shot by Fox at the end), just moving in the same exact direction he would use to avoid the bullet, would still work. This, however, incorrectly assumes that they would even get a curved shot off. BTW, their curved shot is a one shot deal (I know they can do it multiple times, but they literally don't have the time to set themselves for a second shot) that takes them longer to pull off than a regular shot. They would end up with 3 bullets, each, in the chest, before the got done firing. Assuming that Preston, illogically, would stop right into the almost straight curve (cause they are curving over a long distance, so the line is virtually straight in the relatively small space the Preston is moving in), that still results in mutally assured destruction, with Zero surviving, meaning, Preston Zero still win.



That of course assumes a false premise that they would even be able to get that shot off.


Here's a much better depiction of what actually would happen:

(please log in to view the image)

Here's an image with an overly exaggerated curve, as it would travel. The blue one is obviously the straight shot. As I said, mere inches of a difference that would be insignificant. Preston would move out of that bullet's way (or trajectory if you guys are still hung up on that), but moving every place that would be out of the way of the regular bullet's path. That's like.....a HUGE amount of choices. He can still move in any direction, cause, guess what? The curved bullet only makes the difference of a 2 or 3 inches, at the back, of the trajectory. If he is avoiding the trajecotry, instead of the impact point, that's even better.

We know for a fact that Preston is dodging with inches of clearance: unless any of you can find an scene of Preston's clothes "flapping" or his hair flapping from the bullets whizzing by? lol. You can't. Cause he dodges with plenty of room to spare.


So, in the off-hand chance that he would uncharacteristically dodge out of the typical trajectory that we would expect, right into the curved path, which only varies, at the back, by 2 or 3 inches (or less, depending on how far away he is from Wes or Fox), they are still dead.




Let's keep things real and not gimp other characters for the sake of beating RJ in an argument. (That's all I see here: gimping to win an argument against RJ.)



Why, for some magical reason, is preston only allowed to move into the bullets' paths when he would clearly dodge out of the way of many curved shots?



Also, why is Preston being gimped by everyone? Wes and Fox would both end up with multiple bullets through their chest or head before the would even finish their arm-swing for the bullet curve. On top of that, why would Wes and Fox use a curved bullet when Preston is right there in front of them, with a clear path? Isn't that also uncharacteristic of them? Why wouldn't Wes or Fox, you know....shoot one or two of the bullets out of the air before they end up dead? But, that would be too logical: assuming that they would try to save themselves instead of making a curved shot at someone right in front of them.


Send Preston into the Assasin compound and he clears each room out in a tenth the time it took Wes and co to clear them out. He wouldn't even need suicide rats.

Why would we even need to add Agent Zero, here?




Because it's not idiotic. See the image I drew, that has an exaggerated path.

Let's be clear: the only idiotic thing about this is assuming that the curved path makes any difference at all.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This is why Gun Kata users rely on memorizing the locations of their opponents. They don't have to even see them.

Preston, alone in the dark, unable to see his enemies, takes out like ten of them.


Next?

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I could go look for it. But I really don't want to search through hundreds of MVF posts.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't dodge a single bullet in that clip. He didn't even move.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
I would be easier to just type the gist of it.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't dodge a single bullet in that clip. He didn't even move.

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Originally posted by dadudemon



And I've taken a shit all over your argument, too. So we are back at square one: Bullet curving is either not advantageous at all or it does nothing for fights against Gun Kata experts.

So, you're wrong and it's that simple. I don't see why it's so difficult to understand that they are the same points of arrival and the very minuscule differences in the trajectories and how it's irrelevant because of what was directly stated on screen.


RJ told me, "But what about a circular shot?" So Selene is going to shoot herself in the head, huh? A boomerang shot is the last resort. It is MAD.

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This is why Gun Kata users rely on memorizing the locations of their opponents. They don't have to even see them.

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the geometric distribution of antagonists in any gun battle is a statistically predictable element.

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He moved quite a bit, actually.

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Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yet he still knew the locations of all the shooters, all ten (ish) of them, managed to take them out, and managed to not get hit. Now, imagine Blade, with his far superior speed and agility, with Preston's abilities. Imagine if Preston, in the vid below, had Blade's speed, strength and agility:

Next?

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Originally posted by jaden101




Once again it's got nothing to do with memorizing or knowing where the enemies are.

Clearly I need to quote it again



It's about using statistics to predict how enemies will be distributed throughout a room.

So until someone can state how a form of martial arts that specifically uses statistics based on the gun fights from it's own universe can accommodate techniques that have never been shown in any gun fights in that universe?

How does Gun Kata's statistics utilise curved bullet trajectories and create body positions to avoid those curved trajectories when it's never even conceived of curved trajectories?

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nephthys




Wow, the troopers didn't get off a single shot against him in the entire vid. He didn't dodge bullcrap.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't understand you picture. Is Preston supposed to be dodging the blue or black line?

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Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he wouldn't dodge the blue line because thats not where the barrels pointing.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
He'd dodge in a straight line,/B]

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Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]exactly where the first part of the black line points to, but he'd be wrong to do that because where he thinks the bullets going to end up, directly in front of the black line, isn't where its going to end up. Its going to curve and by moving out of the way, he actually has a chance of stepping right into the path of the bullet.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
You guys think that he'd dodge the blue line, but he wouldn't. He has no idea where the bullets going to end up. Thus is Gun Kata is useless.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by jaden101
How is a possibly 90 angle a minuscule difference in trajectory? What's so difficult to understand in that gun kata teaches a cleric to be at either side of a straight line shot but bullet curving can mean the bullet travels to the target from the side thus the cleric will only be moving along that trajectory and therefore still be in the way?

What kind of a silly argument is the last point anyway? It's not like Selene is going to be standing still is it? Clearly she would be looking to shoot herself in the head but that doesn't mean she cant curve the bullet full 360 while on the move (seeing as we're bestowing these attributes on her)



Once again it's got nothing to do with memorizing or knowing where the enemies are.

Clearly I need to quote it again



It's about using statistics to predict how enemies will be distributed throughout a room.

So until someone can state how a form of martial arts that specifically uses statistics based on the gun fights from it's own universe can accommodate techniques that have never been shown in any gun fights in that universe?

How does Gun Kata's statistics utilise curved bullet trajectories and create body positions to avoid those curved trajectories when it's never even conceived of curved trajectories?

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He's listening. He's memorizing the positoions of his opponents. Why? So he can predict two things: A: Where they will be firing from, and B: Where the bullets will strike.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's seeing where to shoot. After he starts shooting he stands completetly still and doesn't even turn his head. No dodging.

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Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. Just re-using your insult. I don't think any of us are stupid.

etc

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's seeing where to shoot. After he starts shooting he stands completetly still and doesn't even turn his head. No dodging.

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re's an image with an overly exaggerated curve, as it would travel. The blue one is obviously the straight shot. As I said, mere inches of a difference that would be insignificant. Preston would move out of that bullet's way (or trajectory if you guys are still hung up on that), but moving every place that would be out of the way of the regular bullet's path.