That was the mindless Hulk. At that period in the character's history, any Hulk without Banner was known as a mindless Hulk. The lines blurred a little more as other writers took on writing for the character, but it wasn't the Savage Hulk personality that hit Onslaught.
The Merged Hulk was more powerful than the base level Savage Hulk. The Savage Hulk was able to become more powerful than Merged Hulk eventually, but that would take a considerable amount of time. After all it was the Merged Hulk that tore apart the jaws of those mechanical Pit Bull's that were capable of crushing adamantium during Future Imperfect. The Merged Hulk was far from being this weak Hulk that you may believe that he was.
Savage hulk back in the day was having trouble with Havok, while the Merged Hulk defeated the entire X-Factor team. No Savage was not more powerful than the Merged Hulk. Also, when the hell did the Hulk (Merged Hulk's body) punch onslaught into dust?
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Last edited by Stoic on Nov 23rd, 2014 at 08:55 PM
That is the Merged Hulk's body with Banner turned off. Back when that story was written, any Hulk that had banner's mind turned off was not the Savage Hulk. The Savage Hulk still retained a portion of banner psyche. That was just poor writing. It was written during the inception of the Merged Hulk persona, that his base level was greater than that of the Savage hulk. What we saw during that scene, was the Merged Hulk telling Jean to turn off the banner portion of his brain in order to bypass Onslaught's ability to manipulate his civilized mind. So the hulk was basically able to ignore onslaught's TP powers, and wage a physical war against him.
Onslaught was able to undermine the Merged Hulk's mind, which is why the request was made to Jean. Since the Savage Hulk was at a lower base level than the Merged Hulk what we see in that scene was the Merged Hulk given the ability to amplify his stats, but make no mistake, that was not the Savage Hulk. The Hulk went from his merged persona, to his mindless persona, which was written poorly, or simply given some flavor with the Hulk Smash dialog.
And yes HP Doomsday would have been able to compromise Onslaught's physical containment.
That was Savage Hulk. Has nothing to do with bad writing. Merged Hulk turned off his part of the mind because he couldn't amp like Savage Hulk could which is the power that was needed to take Onslaught down. Doomsday wouldn't shatter Onslaught like that when the combination of Earth hero's were useless against him.
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On ignore list: Darksaint and Stilt
Last edited by carver9 on Nov 23rd, 2014 at 11:41 PM
I did read Onslaught...that comic is almost as old as the yes I've been here. I remember a lot but I can't remember everything. So, why did you ask that question?
HP Doomsday was written above the High Herald tier. He would break through Onslaught's armor.
It was the Merged hulk that had the Banner portion of his brain turned off. That was not the Savage Hulk's era, it was the Merged Hulk's era. If it was the Savage Hulk, Onlsaught would have taken over his mind like Thanos did when he took over his mind. what happened was poor writing.
Savage Hulk and Merged Hulk are two of the same except Merged couldn't amp his strength. Jean turned on his Savage side to take away the mind that hindered him. I agree with you, that was Merged Hulk Era but that wasn't Merged Hulk or Mindless Hulk that fought Onslaught, it was Savage Hulk. Lol...it isn't bad writing because you don't like that it was Savage Hulk.
Doomsday wouldn't punch through Onslaught...sorry. I'm wondering, do you remember the power of the blows Onslaught and Hulk was dishing out during their brawl? Let me know if you don't remember because I can post it for you.
I remember perfectly, and I know that Savage Hulk is not immune to TP assault from a Telepath as powerful as onslaught was. Thanos easily took over the Savage Hulk's mind, and made him cheap shot Thor. Onslaught would have been able to do the same. This did not happen because it was not the Savage hulk.
The Merged Hulk, was not the same as the Savage Hulk. In order for you to realize this, you just have to go back to when he had his psyche merged. Several things changed. His physical make up changed, and the merged Hulk was as much like the Savage Hulk as he was like Joe Fixit. The closest incarnations of the Merged Hulk was Maestro, and the Green Scar.
HP Doomsday was cutting through Superman's hide like it was water. He would compromise that armor. Not to mention that the Hulk that penetrated the armor wasn't even the strongest Hulk ever seen. WW Hulk would have broken through that armor as well. HP Doomsday alone would cause Onslaught trouble. Throwing in Darkseid, and Henshaw is an easy slaughter.
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Last edited by Stoic on Nov 24th, 2014 at 12:06 AM
I don't know what else to tell you. The more pissed Hulk is, the harder it is to control him.
Look at Hulk in the scan above and compare him to this Hulk and tell me what's the difference.
(please log in to view the image)
Thats Superman...doesn't mean the same will happen to Onslaught. If it was that easy, they would've sent Thor in to stop Onslaught. Doomsday isn't busting through Onslaught.
Superman's durability has far more durability feats than Onslaught's armor did. Doomsday cutting through it like it was non existent does not prove that he would be able to crack that armor, but it goes a long way, and it would be far more difficult to disprove it.
The only memory that jean left the merged Hulk with was Betty. It does not state which Hulk it was, but we know that his base level was greater than the Savage hulk's base level. He wasn't as brain dead as the mindless hulk, but he wasn't quite the Savage Hulk either. Do you have one piece of evidence that shows that the Savage Hulk can ignore a telepath as powerful as Onslaught was? I mean just one, because from what I know there isn't one.
I'm really trying to understand how you can believe that Onslaught would be able to take on Darkseid when he can OE the crap out of him. then you have HP Doomsday, who you seem to believe was weaker than the Hulk, when it took an amplified, and teched out Superman to do little more than get beaten up by him?
i think that you're greatly underestimating what this team would do to him, and are pretty much saying that the hulk that broke the armor was operating at Sky Father levels, when it was stated on panel that the Green Scar was the most powerful Hulk to ever walk around. How does Onslaught stop the OE? What proof do you have that the Hulk that beat him physically was above HP Doomsday? What I see is you being over willingly cheering for the Hulk, and not willing to remember what kind of damage this team has going for them. Darkseid alone would probably break even or outright defeat Onslaught.
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Last edited by Stoic on Nov 24th, 2014 at 12:22 AM
Onslaught's power aside, his telepathic and electromagnetic powers seem like insurmountable obstacles for the group. Took the Marvel heroes several beatings AND prep to deal with that. And that's before Onslaught started making suns out of nothing with Franklin's power.
But at the same time we see a far less versatile Hulk compromising his armor. HP Doomsday was written up to be a High Herald - Low Trans killing machine. If he was unable to take control of the Hulk going Beast Mode, why should anyone believe that he would be able to take control or do any better against Doomsday in Beast Mode? Adding Darkseid with his OE attacks IMO seals the deal for the team.
Well... that was after Doom's plan to weaken Onslaught was achieved and you had Onslaught holding back the rest of Marvel Earth's heroes. Remember, the heroes prepped themselves to protect against Onslaught's telepathy before the final battle. Without them, Onslaught mentally toyed with Hulk twice during Onslaught. And Xavier+Nate Grey telepathy is surely more potent than Manchester Black's, who managed to turn H/P Doomsday's mind. I don't see it. Putting Darkseid's OE against Onslaught's Franklin powers isn't a bet I'd make. Onslaught's EMP attacks are likely to compromise Henshaw or, at the very least inhibit his technopathy. And Onslaught's propensity for turning bricks against their allies makes H/P Doomsday a huge liability for the team.
To all of you that say that team wins, I say to you that if a characer doesnt have some kind of extreme psionic defenses, a fight against Onslaught is over before it ever starts...
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