Like I said, Hulk only has his strength, Superman has much more. He can fly, can survive in space, is thousands of times faster than Hulk, has super senses and has his heat vision and ice breath. And I think he’s a better fighter too. And certainly smarter.
(Why do people ignore all these facts ?)
Now, combine all these nice powers, shake them and give everything you got at the Hulk : do you really think Hulk is not going to feel it ? Hulk is a one trick-pony : strong and tough, that’s about it. And I know I’m going to do something lots of comic lovers will hate me for, but, what the heck : in the Amalgam series, Superman beat Hulk.
“Hold it, Who?-Kid, that was fan-based, so it doesn’t count !!” True, I know that, and I hate it to use these comics as an example, but still, this fight was pretty realistic. Superman hitting Hulk so hard that Hulk was buried under a huge mountain, don’t see the big problem there. That’s perfectly possible. Superman warming up Hulk with his heat vision (Hulk felt it) : same here. If I had to decide who I like best, well, it’s difficult, I like both Superman and Hulk. But Superman has so much more.
Hulk only can win when :
- He survives long enough to become really, really mad (and not to clever at the same time)
- Superman acts like a sitting duck. Personally, I think that somebody as fast as Superman can not be touched by Hulk, but I’ll be a nice guy and ignore his speed.
As for Thing => cool dude, has done some impressive stuff, but like I said, just throw him to Africa and let the real big boys have an awesome fight.
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
"Like I said, Hulk only has his strength, Superman has much more. He can fly, can survive in space, is thousands of times faster than Hulk, has super senses and has his heat vision and ice breath. And I think he’s a better fighter too. And certainly smarter.
(Why do people ignore all these facts ?)"
Pfft. Don't ask me. I make a point to mention them. I will again repeat that ice breath and heat vision are gonna do nothing to Hulk. Lest we forget Ice-Man froze him into a solid block of ice and it did nothing. He can fly....NOW. He wasn't created with that power. He rarely ever uses his speed, this has all been said in the Superman Vs Hulk thread. Superman is a cheap character.
"Now, combine all these nice powers, shake them and give everything you got at the Hulk : do you really think Hulk is not going to feel it ? Hulk is a one trick-pony : strong and tough, that’s about it."
Yeah. Coz he can't like, regenerate, heal, maneuver with cat-like agility, run at over 500mph and all that can he? Oh wait....
"“Hold it, Who?-Kid, that was fan-based, so it doesn’t count !!” True, I know that, and I hate it to use these comics as an example, but still, this fight was pretty realistic. Superman hitting Hulk so hard that Hulk was buried under a huge mountain, don’t see the big problem there. That’s perfectly possible. Superman warming up Hulk with his heat vision (Hulk felt it) : same here. If I had to decide who I like best, well, it’s difficult, I like both Superman and Hulk. But Superman has so much more."
I'll use the point you used, against you. We are the readers. You've seen Supermandaman and all the Superman fans, they're like rabid fangirls. Regardless of if it was the best fight in history, Superman was gonna win if it was down to fan voting. Feel free to pick me up on that but it's true. Superman has so much more because he's been upgraded about 10 times. It's stupid. He could only leap buildings, lift stuff and run fast in the beginning. Now he can fly into space, lift cruise liners, breath ice and blink heat. Talk about taking liberties with comic licence. Hulk is as he has always been and he still rules shit in Marvel.
"Hulk only can win when :
- He survives long enough to become really, really mad (and not to clever at the same time)
- Superman acts like a sitting duck. Personally, I think that somebody as fast as Superman can not be touched by Hulk, but I’ll be a nice guy and ignore his speed."
Oh look, there's that "he needs time to get angry" point again. To which I shall answer with a swift "No, he doesn't". Adrenaline and emotions don't need time when reflecting on the gravity of the situation.
I have nothing against fast characters if it's needed (Surfer and the Heralds, Flash or whatever). Superman does NOT need the speed he has, it's just another botched overkill that DC do so often and everyone knows it.
Except for the healing factor (true, I forgot about that, shame on me), you can leave the cat-like agility and the running speed at home. Like it's gonna be a big difference against Superman.
Eurm, you haven't used anything against me. You just complain how Superman has been upgraded and so. Doesn't matter if Superman has been upgraded or not (lots of characters, by the way, have become stronger or more versatile. Superman is no exception). Topic is current Hulk is fighting current Superman.
One thing : do not compare me with some biased Superman fan. I like and respect Superman and Hulk, but I just think Superman has a better chance in defeating Hulk than vice versa.
I didn't think that was swift. Short yes, swift no . Oh, and it is not true, also. If he doesn't need time to get real angry, why did he ask Jean Grey to make him angry ? Hm ?
I'll tell you a secret, my friend, because he knew he could have been killed by Onslaught BEFORE he was strong enough. So he needs time after all. . Why did he get his ass kicked so many times in the dimensions dr. Strange banished him to ? And yes, there he was very angry, all of the time, but did it matter ? Nope. He was beaten by aliens, dinosaurs and those ugly red knights, it didn't matter how strong or angry he was.
Before that, he was even more angry, but when he fought Thor, Thor used his little hammer to teach him how to fly.
Moral of the story : don't depend on the adrenaline/emotion/anger/stress/strength thing (well, you know what I want to say) too much. It doesn't always work. That is a fact !! And the fact that Hulk gets stronger when he gets mad, is his trump card. Can you guarantee me it will work against Superman ? No you can't.
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
"Except for the healing factor (true, I forgot about that, shame on me), you can leave the cat-like agility and the running speed at home. Like it's gonna be a big difference against Superman."
Be a hell of alot different if it wasn't there though wouldn't it? Yes. If I had left out a fact about Superman, you'd be on it like a dog on heat. Yet it's cool to do it to Hulk.
"You just complain how Superman has been upgraded and so. Doesn't matter if Superman has been upgraded or not (lots of characters, by the way, have become stronger or more versatile. Superman is no exception)."
Ice-Man has evolved with the ability to do more within his base powers. Superman got the ability to fly out of nowhere. Which is where his speed came from. You know, that speed that seems critical in all battles.
"One thing : do not compare me with some biased Superman fan. I like and respect Superman and Hulk, but I just think Superman has a better chance in defeating Hulk than vice versa."
I didn't compare you to them, just raised the point. I give you more credit than that.
"I didn't think that was swift. Short yes, swift no . Oh, and it is not true, also. If he doesn't need time to get real angry, why did he ask Jean Grey to make him angry ? Hm ?
I'll tell you a secret, my friend, because he knew he could have been killed by Onslaught BEFORE he was strong enough. So he needs time after all."
Damn man. Shit, you got me. Oh wait. No...no you haven't. Thanks for sharing the secret but I'll share a fact. She didn't make him strong. She brought out the incarnation best suited to do the job at that time. Savage Hulk, coz it was dormant and the writers wanted to weave more integral parts of Hulk's other incarnations in the Marvel Universe more often. So no, he doesn't need time. He went from passive to being powerful enough to put a hole in Abomination's head in seconds. He didn't say "No wait......grrrrr. No, no almost got it.....Grrrr. Say 'Betty you slapper', that oughtta do it." He just flipped and that was it. No time is needed, sorry.
"Why did he get his ass kicked so many times in the dimensions dr. Strange banished him to ? And yes, there he was very angry, all of the time, but did it matter ? Nope. He was beaten by aliens, dinosaurs and those ugly red knights, it didn't matter how strong or angry he was."
I never claimed he was invulnerable to attack or that he gets beaten up now and then. This is about his strength. Everytime he gets knocked down he gets right back up again.
"Before that, he was even more angry, but when he fought Thor, Thor used his little hammer to teach him how to fly."
Ultimates #5. Nuff said. If of course Thor Vs Hulk is your argument. See who's flying then.
"Moral of the story : don't depend on the adrenaline/emotion/anger/stress/strength thing (well, you know what I want to say) too much. It doesn't always work. That is a fact !! And the fact that Hulk gets stronger when he gets mad, is his trump card. Can you guarantee me it will work against Superman ? No you can't"
Can I guarantee you that Hulk's strength will work against Superman? Given that it has before, yes. Can I guarantee you that it would bring out the win alone? No. But you know as well as I do there are alot of things that go into battles and I believe Hulk is more than capable of winning. Oh and his healing factor, you know that thing you conveniently forgot? Yeah, it increases in speed times by adrenaline. With his anger. So the madder he gets the quicker he heals from wounds. Thought I'd inform you of that.
Tsss, I just forgot it. People do that sometimes, you know.
Well, without Jean Grey, he couldn't have done it, could he ? That's all I wanted to say. Without Jean, he could have been killed. Onslaught was strong enough to kill the Hulk. Hulk knew that, so he swallowed his pride (very uncommon for Hulk) and asked Jean politely to make him angry/ to turn him into savage Hulk (whatever) so he was already waaay stronger than he should be at the beginning at the fight.
When fighting Superman, I don't think there will be a telepath coming to the rescue.
And gets knocked down again .
I think I'm gonna leave the debate right here, because I don't want another endless Hulk vs Superman thing. There are better things to discuss. But it was fun.
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
'and asked Jean politely to make him angry/ to turn him into savage Hulk (whatever) so he was already waaay stronger than he should be at the beginning at the fight.
When fighting Superman, I don't think there will be a telepath coming to the rescue.'
It's not whatever though. It's the latter. As regards 'when fighting Superman...', he is no Onslaught.
All of you can quite trying right now because I've got the team that couldn't be beat. The Silver Surfer (I hate this charecter besause he is so much stronger than everyone else put together) and Superman. Superman takes care of the little guys and Surfer takes care of everyone else.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 8th, 2004 02:56 PM
. Oh, and it is not true, also. If he doesn't need time to get real angry, why did he ask Jean Grey to make him angry ? Hm ?
. Why did he get his ass kicked so many times in the dimensions dr. Strange banished him to ? And yes, there he was very angry, all of the time, but did it matter ? Nope. He was beaten by aliens, dinosaurs and those ugly red knights, it didn't matter how strong or angry he was.
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