Ok I might understand the point he's trying to make, but I'm not 100% sure. If I'm correct, I think the issue being put forth is that unlike Thor's hammer(which gets used directly against an opponent) when discussing WF there's something of a ritual involved in the creation of the multiverse. If someone can wave their hand and create a universe or multiverse, that's something of a direct indication of how much power they can bring to bear at any one moment. But when there's ritual involved there's less direct correlation between the feat and the characters specific offensive/defensive capabilities in a fight scenario. By the same token, Odin can use a ritual to create a weapon that can kill Celestials, but we know for a fact that he himself can't hurt a Celestial. And to an extent some level of recognition of the process used is warranted. After all it's not like WF's opponents are required to stand around and wait for the guy to pound away on his anvil for long enough to unleash a multiverse's worth of power as if he's charging up an attack on DBZ.
From the little I know of the WF, it honestly seems like he's one of those guys who should be avoided in threads because he just doesn't have all that much to go on. Mistress Love and Sire Hate have way more appearances than WF, but we don't bother putting them in threads because there's just no way to actually judge what we've seen from them. I'm not denying WF's power because he's obviously meant to be one of DC's 4 highest guns, I'm just saying that like most abstract level characters any discussion specifically dependent upon his feats is going to fall flat.
So are you saying that he can create universes without the anvil?
As far as I can see, where the anvil comes from is an unknown even if he can summon it any time. But so far, it appears necessary for the creation of universes and multiverses and has shown nothing to indicate applicability in battle. That is why I ask about what he has shown with just the hammer and himself.
Someone mentioned the creation of his pet. Okay, that's a good one. A universe eater. A comparable character would perhaps be Hunger. That very pet also killed WF.
Yeah well, at the same time Marvel fans need to stop trying to frame the character based on stuff they know doesn't exist. He's meant to be one of the most powerful guys in DC, he's an abstract level character. He's not going to have a lot of feats that are viable in a vs thread. Odin probably has better feats than Eternity, doesn't mean a damn thing.
one, there is no comparison. 2, did that pet kill Wf in the 6th dimension? Nope, he was killed outside of the 6th dimension and then was reborn back in the 6th dimension.
In the 6th dimension WF picked up that same universe destroyer like he was a little mouse. That should tell you how much more powerful he is in his domain which is the 6th dimension.
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The only time a 'ritual' is involved is when WF wants to summon/use the Crisis Anvil specifically... But like I said before, the implication is that he *only* wanted to use the Crisis Anvil during the JL arc in order to replace multiverses without being detected by the Judges of the Source(because they might have destroyed him for doing such a thing.)
Apart from that, WF simply uses his 'regular' hammer/anvil to endlessly populate the entire multiversal superstructure(from the Monitor Sphere, all the way down to the Dark Multiverse.) That is his fundamental purpose, after all:
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And as mentioned: even in a greatly diminished state, WF can [obviously] summon his 'regular' hammer/anvil at will, and start unleashing universal energy: https://i.imgur.com/2M9vnGb.jpg
So I'm curious why in the hell people are trying to categorize his power without the hammer/anvil? To put the stupidity of such a question into perspective, that is like asking what Anti-Monitor would be capable of if anti-matter didn't exist.
From the outside looking in, it does indeed like new depths to the lowballing are being reached here.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 6th, 2019 at 03:19 PM
Well personally, I was only referring to the big thing at the end. Anything he did beyond that is totally outside of my knowledge of the guy. I thought that was something that was being directly discussed because since the whole thing went down it seems like it's always being discussed lol.
WF is in the Prime Universe when he picks it up like a mouse. So it appears that the size has no meaning. And WF was not residing in the 6th dimension when killed. He resided at the World Forge where he was presumably fully powered at that location.
Yeah, we have no context for how Barbatos kills Forger, and we at least know that Alpheus can keep Barbatos as a tiny, subservient pet for billions of years while he eats (infinities of) universes.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Both combatants. Heck, Perpetua with most of her power back has to take a prolonged period of time after destroying a universe to regain the energy to destroy another. It will take her a while to destroy the other 51 universes. She is more powerful than WF.
CK at that point had destroyed 98.7% of what was an infinite multiverse at the time.
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