There are multiple definitions of what a soul is in both fiction and theology. The definition of soul in the MU with regards to what the Surfer manipulates is defined in the very scan he used the power in.
Stop trying to insist on the definition you decided to cherry pick when the very definition has already been specified on panel. And the rule specifies that Surfer's power would work the same way it did in his universe, meaning, unless explicitly specified, any sentient being is assumed to have a soul for the purposes of his power working. I already showed you the rule that supports my argument.
Are you now insisting that Xavier's telepathy will not work on anyone in the Watchmen universe?
Last edited by Nibedicus on Mar 30th, 2015 at 06:49 AM
Lol. Don't bother. Earlier in the thread, he asserted that DM had no soul. When challenged to define a soul, his definition was a textbook definition for what DM was.
Once he realised the trap he had fallen into, note how quickly he changes his stance, and shifts the goalposts.
Note too, how in other threads he would doggedly stick to his stance that character mindsets don't matter (to the extent that it forms part of his online identity - note his signature, which explicitly states that the instance someone asserts that character A wouldn't use something in battle, they concede. And yet, what is he doing in this thread, when he asserts Surfer wouldn't use TP rape in battle?
And note too, how he acknowledges if I allowed the same tactics by Surfer against Thanos, he would concede. I allowed it, and he continues. He is so stubborn and so afraid of losing face, that he would go against his very online identity (much like mine is to do with jizz) and principles, just to attempt to avoid looking a fool.
So no matter what proof you bring, or logic, he will ignore it, and he will argue against it for the sake of being an argumentative rock - so desperate is he to show his 'intelligence' off and claim a scalp of someone who can actually argue against him. The only result is that people will lose patience, and leave the thread, and he will claim his 'victory'.
Ironic thing is I don't think h1 has ever actually won a debate or avoided looking like a fool. Hell, even being right is elusive to him.
I'm not even making a joke though. Completely 100 percent serious.
That's why I have a very difficult time assuming he's a serious poster. No one can just be that big of a jackass moron all the time. It's just not possible to me.
The only thing that makes me question that is how consistent it is and how he seems serious about it. With Board Walker you know it's just trying to troll. With h1's demeanor it goes either way depending how dumb his argument gets.
I remember a while back when he wasn't on ignore how he didn't care about being full of hypocrisy and he argues on a thread by thread basis. So that's what you're dealing with. Complete waste of time. He'd argue with you that the Hulk was never green and nothing would change it.
I still hold hope that he has a real account somewhere on the forum. For my sake in humanity.
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I always wondered that. Like BW is an obvious troll. A few others are just rabid fanboys with some glimmer of hope at times. But h1is without a doubt the most persistent and unforgiving type, you simply dont know if he's an idiot or just an epic troll
What are you talking about? A soul only has 1 definition. It is a spirit like being (as shown in the Surfer comic and what is thought about in real life). If Surfer uses telepathy by matter manipulating the brain (which isn't the soul) then the tactic won't work since DM has control over his being. If Surfer manipulates the soul when he uses telepathy then the tactic won't work since DM doesn't have a soul. No one does. Just like you or me might not have one (if God doesn't exist in our universe).
Surfer can't mindrape a sentient robot using telepathy can he? Why should the rule apply then?
If Dr. Xavier manipulates minds by matter manipulation (controlling brain impulses, etc.) then yes his powers will work on people in the watchmen universe. It won't work on DM since he has control of his entire being.
Each debator is different. The important thing is to argue while being on the same page. If you argue powersets then so will I. If you argue character then so will I. I asked you about Surfer against Thanos so that we can be on the same page. So, when arguing with you then Surfer uses tp in this battle. But with another, who argue character, I will simply argue that Surfer won't employ such a tactic in a negative way since he has never done it and is probably against it.
I didn't change the definition of soul or move the goalposts. My view of soul has always remained the same. A spirit like being that is created or comes by a divine being.
Obviously the soul is intangible and separate from the body. So if Surfer uses tp by manipulating soul then it won't work. If Surfer uses tp by manipulating matter then again it won't work.
I'm always consistent. Your post is nothing but a troll and flame post. Against the rules. My arguments are sound and strong. Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm a troll. I don't ignore on panel evidence nor do I break the rules. You constantly break them with flame posts. If you have nothing good to say about a poster then don't say anything at all. Seriously!
He's both, that's why he is on my ignore list. The BS he was spewing was getting out of hand,most of the members on here have common sense and have the ability to swallowed there pride and concede and or say they were wrong, nut H1 will fight to the bitter end no matter how stupid he looks.
Thats why I say it again he's on my ignore list, he doesn't bring nothing to forum except trolling, ignorance and bias. So put him on your ignore list and debate with people that will argue back with facts not with there own personal theories and real world logic :/ .
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Lol come on h1. Even you'd have to admit at this point your argument is a bit half assed. I mean you're talking to avid comic book readers not casual fans. And the stuff u try and pass off as "fact" i mean come on hun, seriously? I'd admit though you do argue in circles quite well.
what, I read comics too. I know most feats by most characters. Not all though. But my arguments are very sound. I'm hardly ever wrong. When I'm wrong it's because of a feat I didnt know about. I challenge you to state where I argued in circles.
Gender: Female Location: Poppin Pills on the Rainbow Bridge
Well this whole soul, God, tp via matter manipulation argument for one. Unless otherwise stated they have souls its not that foreign a concept to grasp. Everything literally everything DM has done Surfer has done on a grander scale Manhattan just does not have the feats. He couldn't even prevent war between two countries. Surfer has saved entire planets from Galactus. You're reaching
If you think that, you need to brush up on your reading as the definition of soul has changed throughout history and thru many cultures. That's not even counting the many different interpretations in fiction. It's funny how you like to tout your "intelligence" and yet seem completely ill-informed of such an elementary concept.
Tho this is simply semantics that is unrelated to the debate.
So I will end it here before you attempt to take this debate on a tangent in order to divert attention from your bad logic.
Before proceeding further, however, I will need you to sign off on your argument exactly so we can avoid goalposts moving.
You argument is as follows:
1) A divine being is needed for souls to exist.
2) There is no divine being in the Watchman Universe, thus, characters there have no souls.
3) Characters whose (in their native universes) affect another's mind/soul cannot affect Watchman characters as they have no mind/soul.
4) Watchman character's "mind" can only be affected via physical manipulation of the brain.
Last edited by Nibedicus on Mar 31st, 2015 at 12:19 AM
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