well amazo also ran through an entire fleet of people and ships(including supes and the corps) and he knocked everything out. and grundy actully had a fight with supes, amazo knocked supes out and he destroyed supergirl with one punch. amazo woudnt have really beaten him, but grundy couldnt either. damn overated mace.
Dont accuse me of making things up Mr M and do not start throwing insults because i choose to have a different opinion to yours.
Carry on and we both know how this will end.
We've already been through this many a time and we concluded in the previous thread that Pre retcon Beyonder despite your OPINION on his placing in the hierarchy, he does not have an actual feat beyond Phoenixes top feats despite character comments. With that in mind why you have chosen to post in this new thread a mfew months later that not only C. Beyonder but Pre retcon MM are beyond Phoenix is beyond me. (Im thinking it has something to do with my recent absence ) That is an opinion of yours and one that is not conclusively verified on panel. Character comments have placed Hercules as the strongest powerhouse, however by powerset and feats we know the Hulk is. Comments alone arent enough and are meaningless when not backed up by feats which conclusively support the point being made.
Yeah Beyonder and Molecule Man have performed alot of impressive feats, however none of them are more impressive than Phoenixes best feats and therefore you can never treat your opinion as fact. Because its not and never will be without some major 360 from Marvel.
Phoenix was around when Beyonder was about however she never faced Beyonder and we now know her home dimension is beyond creation. With that in mind you can assume NOT A THING. Even if you treat as fact the debatably hyperbolic comments your argument relies on you have no evidence to prove your point, the comments just dont apply with that in mind, whereas i can refer to her more impressive feats. It will always come down to that MM and your opinion will change nothing. Even back in the 80's PRIOR to the retcon as me and Leonidas highlighted from the official sources the Beyond Realm didnt encompass all that was beyond the multiverse but instead an other dimensional (beyond the main marvel dimension) universe. Therefore current Phoenix would overlook his realm from the white hot room anyway.
Im not doubting his power. I never have. I have a problem with you treating your assumptions and your interpretation of scenes as fact. Thats all. Beyonder was ridiculously powerful however he wasnt conclusively the most powerful being to have ever existed in marvel. Character comments of the time painted him as such theres no doubt about that, however when it came down to feats and his performance on panel said comments just werent supported. His feats arent the best and current Phoenix exists and operates from a higher dimension. Im sorry my friend.
Nope. Silver Surfer certainly helped him in the later issue of the mini. If you have the comic book at hand you'd know this as well. Why not post that instead of an earlier and therefore irrelevant scan. I unfortunately am away working hence my recent absence. Im posting this from work so i dont have access to all my scans, but you better believe i'll be back in force sometime very soon. I cant allow you lil upstarts to spout this garbage like its the gospel.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Scuse the harshness of my words,
but it pisses me off when you make stuff up to validify your point or opinion.
I accused you of making stuff up, because you did, you should know by now I research these comics obssessively, so why even try to slide in some fantasy as fact, and if it wasn't bad enough that you did it, you did to me, by replying to my post. That's a violation of my knowledge. Siver Surfer DID NOT in ANY WAY help Molecule Man do anything at ANY TIME DURING the SECRET WARS SAGA. I'll bet my KMC reputation on that.
Why don't we let the onlookers be the judge of that, anyone who is interested in seeing what pre-retcon Beyonder is all about check out: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...hlight=beyonder
It has a wealth of facts, opinions, speculations and scans of Classic Beyonder.
And still waiting to see what Phoenix can do that Beyonder can't.
It's interesting that you made up MM needing SS's help, when in fact it was Phoenix, who actually needed help from several X-Men when preventing the Lattice of the Mkraan from crystal from shattering.
Because Phoenix in my opinion is useless in actual confrontation, it's never around, so what's it's point? When Beyonder threatened everything Phoenix Force is inactive. And it goes on but I'll only name a few:
Korvac threat = Phoenix inactive
Thanos/IG threat = Phoenix inactive
Akhenaten threat = Phoenix inactive
Thanos/HOTU threat = Phoenix inactive
What does it take for this Phoenix Force to appear and do SOMETHING.
Ok, her feats are impressive, molding 616 universe in her hands, Beyonder created Star Systems and disintegrated those same Star Systems on a whim showing off, without any concentration, and he made Dimensions collapse, where thousands to millions of Star Systems can exist, without even noticing it, just for being in our Mulitiverse.
Star System - a large number of stars with a perceptible structure; a galaxy.
He also contained that explosion that defies all science-arcane and psionic "laws of limitation" according Scion of the Micronauts, it would have disintegrated the Microverse.
The bottom line is, if the Phoenix Force existed in Classic Beyonder's days, then by definition Beyonder was more powerful than the Phoenix Force, and so was Molecule Man since he was the SeCOND most powerful being in ALL existence.
Then don't you use character comments to prove your point ever again, cause I have seen you plenty of times quoting some character to solidify your opinion as fact, like for instance, when you used Beyonder's own words to try and prove that Beyonder said, Rachel is the closest thing to him on this planet. In actuality, He was referring to the Phoenix Force itself, because he CLEARLY said " This ENTITY Rachel's(notice the apostraphe S)Power, is extraordinary"
Who's extraordinary? The ENTITY, that is Rachel's Power. Thank You.
We ALL wonder why she didn't face him, but Beyonder is Beyond this creation aswell.
Uhh GS, my argument does not only rely on a stupid comment, I have plenty of scans that I have posted of Beyonder displaying many feats, not please indulge me, and show me what Phoenix has done that's beyond what Beyonder can do, let's go scan for scan.
What opinion? Facts my friend FACTS.
I showed the Scan of MM saving everybody by HIMSELF, this is not an opinion, take that to your minions. I'll post it again if you wish, I'll post the whole comic book if you want.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLOLOL
Don't try and make allies when trapped, Leon only proved that the New Universe was created in late 1986 november, but in 84' to late 86' Beyonder was ALL there was beyond the multiverse.
There are two bios friend,
In one:http://www.marveldirectory.com/othe...ions/beyond.htm
This one clearly tells us that beyond our own reality lies THE universe of the Beyonder.
Not A universe, Not ONE of MANY universes, JUST THE UNIVERSE.
Apparently to HIGH to even be considered in these versus forums anymore, LOL.
The Phoenix has always been an interesting cosmic entity...when it/she was first revealed, The Watcher, (I believe), said the Phoenix Force was second only to God. Hyperbole, for sure, that should be ignored...since Galactus was once referred to, (by the same Watcher), as the most powerful being in the universe. Fast-forward to the 90's and a slew of cosmic crossovers (mostly Infinity stuff) and events (ie. Warlock on trial) and the Phoenix is nowhere to be seen. Fast-forward even further to 'X-Men: Forever' and it's revealed that the Phoenix Force is the ressurection force, and all cosmic beings (including LT) will be replaced by mutants in the future. Sure, fine...I have no problem. Next we see the 'White-Crown' Phoenix holding Universe 616 in the palm of her hand, and all I have to say is WHOA! When did she/it go from being pretty much nonfactorish to on par with, (or superior to), LT?
But anyway...the best and most coherent explanation I've read describing the Phoenix (and LT's) role in the MU is this:
1. The multiverse is a forest...each tree is a separate universe (Eternity/Infinity).
2. The Phoenix Force is the lifeforce...the sap that flows within these trees.
3. LT is the landscaping man who makes sure that no tree grows substantially taller than another, he also chops down any diseased/decaying trees, so they don't affect any of the others. Or he could be holding a shotgun, to guard from invaders from another forest (ie. Beyonder as he was shown before the retcon).
I'll POST the whoile comic just to PROVE you wrong, especially now that you repeated your ABSOLUTELY FALSE statement.
KMC Community Forums
Jun 11th, 2006 10:38 PM
