Oro still had to take on two Sannins by himself. And did a good job. I Beleive Orochimaru was more handicaped. His body wad giving out plus his arms were sealed. Orochimaru mane rep is ninjutsu. He couldnt before them at all while Jiraya still had some capability
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
1. Oro had help with him, Kabuto. Without Kabuto, Manda, or any of the other snakes wouldn't have been summoned.
2. Oro was more handicapped, I won't argue there because he couldn't do any jutsu's.
3. I don't think his body was giving up, because through the entire fight, we never saw him scream in agony. That doesn't mean he wasn't in pain, but you never saw him do that.
4. Oro's main feat is ninjutsu, yes, but he would still lose to Jiraiya, even with his arms unsealed. We didn't even know about Jiraiya's full power until he fought Pein. Jiraiya could beat Oro. Oro should have died, way before Sasuke would have killed him. If Sarutobi was 10 years younger, he would have won, and plus, Oro had to summon 2 hokage's to beat sarutobi.
Thing is. Only ThingJiraya really recieves is a major strength boost, Chakra is sgtrengthen for ninjutsu(genjutsu as well but Jiraya isnt really a genjutsu type) Orochimaru can still move around sparaticly. And dont forget Orochimaru's form. Multiple snakes coming out at you sound hard to dodge. That and Yamata no Orochi attacking doesnt sound fun either. And if Jiraya doesnt cut orochimaru down. The femurs in his blood would paralyze Jiraya leaving him open for attack .Cuz Orochimaru can heal himself.
I wouldnt say Jiraya>>>orochimaru. They are quite on par with eachother. I would even vote for orochimaru. cuz if push comes to shove. Orochimaru could take over Jman body with the soul transfer jutsu.
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
Not major, MAJOR. All he needs is his ninjutsu to be stronger. It doesn't matter if he can still move around. Snakes are hard to dodge, but he would summon the big fat ass frog and sit on them like before. Orochimaru can't heal himself, he just has different bodies, and he would have healed is arms better then if he could, and not worry about Tsunade. Also, he couldn't even keep Sasuke paralyzed for long. Also, Orochimaru said that Itachi is stronger than him, and would die if they fought. Itachi said that he and Jiraiya would both die if they fought. That means Oro is weaker than Jiraiya.
I would say that Jiraiya>>>Orochimaru. No where near on par. I would vote for Jiraiya 9.5/10. Tha soul transfer jutsu is slow, and if it misses, which it most likely will, his soul won't return back to his body for a few minutes, and that leavs him wide open.
Orochimaru white snake abilities increases his healing speed to almost godlike recovery. Gambunta almost got killed by Manda if it wasnt for Tsunade. Out of all the summoning of the sannin. Manda showed to be the strongest schooling both the slug and gambunta at the same time. Now not only that. Orochimaru has an even bigger summoning that would most likely shit on Manda. Yamagta the 8 headed snake. Now. We dont know how long Sasuke was paralyzed. If it wasnt for Sasuke sharingan he be dead. Jiraya doesn't have that much time.
Also when Itachi made that statement. it was Bull. We just found out that Itachi main purpose was to try and protect konoha and his brother. Why would he mess up his plans and Kill jiraya. If jiraya gone. Naruto is open season and he captured and gone putting konoha into danger. He didnt kill kakashi even kakashi admitted he would have died if Itachi wanted to. When abilities compare up. Itachi has the skills to defeat Jiraya and walk away from the battle. Itahci is argubkly better cuz his stat tier is brought down by his stamina. And stamina isnt really skill invovled.
Orochimaru is on Jiraya level and on par and could nessarily beat him in most cases. Itachi is just down right better than both of them cuz of his versaility.Now. Orochimaru soul tranfer. What in the world are you talking about. Your thinking of Ino's technique. Which is completely different. Orochimaru happened almost instantly. And they were trapped in a dimension. That sasuke broke out of and took over w/ his sharingan. A luxary that Jiraya doesnt even have.
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
Gamabunta almost being killed by Manda is true. Manda didn't really school both, as Manda didn't even hurt Katsuyu. Sasuke stood there for like a few seconds, stabbed himself, and he was free. Jiraiya could do the same. Oro would have been using his godlike recovery then, and yet he wasn't using it at all.
If it was bull, then Oro's was, Zabuza's statement about Haku is bull, Oro's statement about Kabuto was bull, etc. It wasn't bull, because he even said that Jiraiya and him would die, he wasn't lieing, because he never said he did, and Oro even admitted Itachi is superior to him in every way, as Oro could not take his body. The fact is that Jiraiya would actually would probably whomp Itachi, and Kisame at the same time. Exactly, Sasuke broke out of it. What makes you think that Jiraiya can't when Jiraiya is superior to Sasuke in everything except for genjutsu? Just because Sasuke has sharingan doesn't make soul transfer unbreakable. Stamina is a skill, just watch the Ali, and Foreman fight. You will see that you need stamina to win a fight.
Orochimaru is not on the same level, . Itachi being better than both of them. Just because he escaped toad mouth trap doesn't make him stronger. If Itachi even admits he couldn't beat Jiraiya, that means he can't beat Jiraiya, fact. The only advantage Itachi has on Jiraiya is genjutsu, and genjutsu's will be pretty much ineffective on him. Pein was struggleing for a little bit of the fight against Jiraiya, and lost a body, and Pein is superior to Itachi. Jiraiya stood up to a 6 on 1, Jiraiya beats Sasuke, Itachi, and Oro, but not at the same time, different fights.
When did Sasuke stab himself. Im not talking about the Chuunin exams death stare jutsu. Im talking about post time skip when Sasuke sliced Orochimaru into ribbons. And Orochimarus blood released sfuems that paralized sasuke
Itachi lied about a great many things to keep his secret. And who did he tell this to. Kisame. Kisame was abit anxious to fight Jiraya. And even question Itachi retreat. Cuz he knows what Itachi is capable of. Itachi was telling Kisame basically lies so they would not get in heated conflict with Jiraya. Most likely ending in Jiraya death. And if he didnt go out and kill Jiraya and half assed the battle to keep that BS of lie up. Jiraya would have most likely killed them cuz you cant go half ass in battle like that. And if Itachi would have died. Then His mission to protect his brother his life mission for his brother would have been failed. There soo many lies and issues with Itachi. it not even funny. Theres nothing Jiraya can really do or have that would put him significantly over Itachi.
Specially since their tier level is the exact same in basic stats.
Ok. Tell me what Jiraya would do against Itachi genjutsu. Or how Jiraya would fair against tsukiyomi and amaterasu. Or itachi superior taijutsu and weaponry skills. What would jiraya do against susano'o. HM. Thats a joke. Increase strength tremendously and speed a little bit along wiht chakra quality. Thats good but what is that going to do against Sharingan wielded in the hands of someone faster than you. When they can see high speed movement and predicat all you moves before you make them. Making taijutsu useless. Ultimate Rasengan. Thats cool but it doesnt take much avoid. So does his hair jutsu. and so does his deepfryer jutsu. frog song/ Best bet but no cigar. Itachi can see through genjutsu and is a genjutsu master. That plus one of his bloodline jutsu Kyouten Chiten reverses genjutsu back onthe user. Hits the frogs and frogs are paralized knocking Jiraya out of HM mode. and possibly turning him into a frog. it would be a tough battle for Itachi but itachi would come out victorious.
Now. orochimaru. Jiraya not once in his entire life has ever beaten Orochimaru. Considering Orochimaru left after he had gained HM. Because if you look at the timeline. it falls into place. Jiraya learn HM before he met Yahiko, Nagato and Konan in which he heard about the prophecy. So when oro and Jiraya battle to stop Orochimaru from leaving. Guess what. Orochimaru beat his ass and left. Because. if Jiraya did beat Orochimaru. Orochimaru would be in the village and would have never left.
You can't use ABC logic because it fails. and your abc logic is flawed. Cuz your asuming C is actually A.
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
Now. lets see. Things itachi said were false or a lie
He didn't kill shisui(LIE)
That if Sasuke awakens MS. there would only be 3 people who can use it.(Kakashi, Sasuke, Madara, Itachi) Hold on. Thats 4. (False)
I killed uchiha clan to test my capacity(Lie)
Only an uchiha can break resist or break Tsukiyomi(Pretty much false.) Hachibi broke out of it.
I defeated Uchiha By myself. Took credit for it so....(Lie)
You must kill your best friend to gain MS(Lie and false)
Kyuubi attacked Konoha cuz of Madara(Possibly false)
Madara stole his younger brother eyes and killed him(Lie) Db goes to state Izuna gave his eyes to madara and that Izuna died in battle.
So. Itachi has not only been wrong about a great deal of things. But has lied about a great deal of things to protect his secret from his brother. Why risk having his brother find out and his mission uncovered. Just to kill one of Konoha strongest shinobi when he trying to protect Konoha as well. hmmmmmm.
Itachi stated that the name of uchiha was nothing before Jiraya. yes. But Itachi also said that the uchiha clan was weak and has not tested their skills to their limit because they are simply and merely satified with their position in konoha. So he soiled the uchiha name and abandoned it pretty much. And left it up to his brother to rebuild it. Why Jiraya name is so great. Apart of the strongest village. Trained one of the greates hokages. Was a sannin. traveled the world doing countless adventures. and wrote sex stories.
Im sorry. But manga evidence shows. Itachi>/=Jiraya. And since Itachi had secret mission and lied abouty a many things. The lie to kisame to help avoid a full blown conflict between Jiraya is HIGHLY likely
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
Most of these are true, but a few have a twist to them:
-He didn't know kakashi had it at the time.
-He told the third hokage that he didn't want to tell him, even though he lied about that, he didn't want to tell him.
-I don't remeber him ever saying that you can't resist MS.
-If it is possibly false, don't say it then.
-Fine, it won't be a tie between Itachi, and Jiraiya. Jiraiya would flat out beat Itachi's ass badly.
The one thing he is way wrong about then is being even close to Jiraiya's strength.
The Uchiha clan were weak, because not all of them had MS, but if all of them had MS, they would even be passed the Hyuga's in strength.
No, I am sorry, but manga evidence is right here.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/08/
He never says such things, and everybody knows Jiraiya>>>Itachi. They are not near being equals.
He said he would die against Jiraiya, even though he said it would be a tie, Jiraiya would win in a stomp. Jiraiya went toe to toe with Pein, and Pein had the advantage(6 on 1), and all Jiraiya needed to do to beat Itachi is to use Twin Rasengan(Itachi will stop one, but can't stop the other), or use Earth Style: Dark Swamp, and trust me, Itachi isn't dodging that. Itachi can use MS 2 to 3 times, as shown after 1 tsukiyomi, and 1 amaterasu, he was tired. Jiraiya has hermit mode, and will summon gamabunta and Itachi won't have anything to stand up to him.
Itachi nver said he would die if he fought jiraya. He said it would be too troublesome and the fact that leaf reinforcements is another reason itachi left. Orochimaru has stated that itachi was stronger than him. Oro was also beaten by Itachi in the past. Oro has beaten jiraiya in the past and when they fought again while oro was sealed an it was still troubled for a drugged jiraiya. jiraiya was not toe to toe with pain. Jaraiya was easily dispatched. Itachi would never be hit by an attack as slow as the rasengan. 30% itachi had to be held by a Kakashi shadow clone so naruto could hit him.
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
"Yeah, if we face each other, both of us would be killed*, a very unapelling outcome. Even if there were more of us, the results would remain the same*." -Itachi
*Automatic death against Jiraiya. No way out of it.
Yes, Itachi didn't want to fight a full scale battle. I know, I said that already. I don't remeber Oro beating Jiraiya in the past. I you are counting the time Oro was going to have Tsunade heal him, that doesn't count, because Oro surprised him with his tongue attack. If Jiraiya wasn't drugged and Kabuto wasn't there to summon the 2 snakes, easily Jiraiya would have killed him. Jiraiya did pretty well against Pein, for being at a 6 to 1 disadvantage. Imagine if if would have been able to kill the real Pein. Itachi has 2 ways he could get hit by Rasengan:
1. Jiraiya uses twin rasengan, and Itachi blocks the 1st one, and Jiraiya surprises the 2nd one.
2*. Jiraiya summons Gama* and Gama uses his tongue to grab hold of Itachi and Jiraiya great ball rasengan's him to his death.
*Most likly this one, and I am not talking about Gamabunta.
ok oro fought jiraiya and won right before he left the village kind like how sasuke fought naruto and won.
when have you seen jiraiya ever bee able to hold 2 rasengan.
Jiraiya isnt going to summon against a regular ninja. Ninja only summon their summons to fight other summons. plus if sauke can put Manda under genjutsu he can also do it against Gamabunta and the other weaker frogs
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
Why are you bringing up something that happened way before the show even started. I am not talking about Oro from back then vs Jiraiya from back then. I am talking about current Jiraiya va Current Oro. And by the way, they never fought, Jiraiya tried to convince him to stay at the village, but Oro said no.
Jiraiya first twin rasengan this technique while teaching Naruto how to use the Rasengan. It never states that the only thing that summonings can fight are other summonings. Sarutobi summoned Edma to fight Oro and break free of the branches that held him. Manda isn't Gamabunta, and Gamabunta isn't Manda. Sasuke used Manda to just protect him from the explosion, and what exactly will he use Gamabunta for. He also was the one who summoned Manda, not somebody else. Sasuke can only use MS so many times until he can't use it anymore. Jiraiya could summon tons of strong frogs and hold down both and Jiraiya rasengans both of them to there death.
He will use him for anything. To Squash naruto, kill himself, give him a froggy BJ. He can controll him. Remember Kakashi he had Zabuza pulling of jutsu. So Sasuke could make him do what ever he wants within buntas limits
__________________ Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
"Hmm, I would love future debaters here to pratice grammar so I may better understand them.
I rather not cut my intelligence and stoop to their level of ignorance.
Be smart, and use corrective grammar, so you don;t sound like a complete jackass."
In the Great words of Shao Khaun
"YOU HAVE FAAAIIILLLLED!!!!!!!!"
i was just staing that jiraiya cant beat oro as easily as you say he will
Look at the size of Enma and look at Gamabunta. Enma is more like a ninja teammate kinda like akamaru to kiba. Plus the 3rd was getting jumped by a sannin and two hokage.
look at how big that exploosion was. All your doing is proving my point they only use the summons if they need to. Neither Gamabunta nor Manda are going to fight a ninja. They would only fight summons or protect their summoners from eminent danger...
Example The frog you are talking about that squashes people was used against a summon not a ninja.
If sasuke controlled the toad sage (the leader of the frogs) the others wouldnt be able to handle him. Plus if sasuke doesnt control Gamabunta Oro has Manda who if not for Tsunade would have killed Gamabunta.
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
KMC Community Forums
Nov 7th, 2008 10:11 PM
. Itachi being better than both of them. Just because he escaped toad mouth trap doesn't make him stronger. If Itachi even admits he couldn't beat Jiraiya, that means he can't beat Jiraiya, fact. The only advantage Itachi has on Jiraiya is genjutsu, and genjutsu's will be pretty much ineffective on him. Pein was struggleing for a little bit of the fight against Jiraiya, and lost a body, and Pein is superior to Itachi. Jiraiya stood up to a 6 on 1, Jiraiya beats Sasuke, Itachi, and Oro, but not at the same time, different fights.
