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Originally posted by Enyalus
I don't agree. Barry only has PC feats to go on, which are ridiculous, and now he's the Black Flash, so that's above Wally, too.

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Originally posted by cloud102
Do you have any feats? I hear he has done amazing things during PC. And he taught Wally a thing or two.

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Originally posted by Enyalus
He's vibrated between alternate earths before. But I think Wally's done that, too. He's traveled lightyears in a picosecond. Not sure if Wally's done that one. Broke the time barrier under his own power. Something Wally's also done. Erm... I'm not too big on the PC Era. That's about all I can think of off-hand.

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Originally posted by Space M ummy
read em. are you referring to this part?




as I pointed out before, I'm not saying because the fight takes place on neutral ground, flash doesn't have the abilities he usually does. He has them in full.

What I'm saying is that in specifying that "all kinetic energy derives from the speed force" in a neutral setting is actually a disadvantage to any character for whom this is not usually the case. you're throwing a handicap at surfer where he usually doesn't have one.

if we're taking all characters to have full access to the range of their abilities regardless of location, then this includes the surfer- you want to drain down his speed in his native universe, you're going to have to do a generic kinetic energy drain, or drain the PC specifically. suddenly stating that he uses the speed force, and speed specifically can be drained when he never has done this, and this can't be done in his native universe is a handicap, NOT "neutral ground."

Note that this argument would not work for DC-centric characters, as the kinetic energy of DC speedsters/characters is natively tied to the speed force, and flash has mastered the manipulation of that energy.

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Originally posted by Juntai
It -is- a kinetic energy drain. Wally can drain the kinetic energy of anything, from things as small as molecules, and even once an entire planet. It's not merely character speed that is tied to the speed force. The Speed Force is merely what he calls the dimension that all kinetic energy in reality is spawned from.

It'd be like saying Surfer can't access the power cosmic in a nuetral setting.
Absolutely ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Naija boy
U entirely missed the point and ur analogy is completely off. Yes flash can drain kinetic energy, but he does so through his connection to the "dimension that all kinetic energy inhis reality is spawned from". Hence he is able to drain speed/KE easily from any character/thing within that reality because all speedKE is gotten from the speed force which empowers him. In this scenario it is entirely different because the character he is fighting (surfer) that does not have his KE/speed spawned from the speedforce but rather another powersource alltogether.(PC)

UR analogy is completely off because it has nothing to do with flash not accessing the speedforce (or conversely surfer not accessing the PC) but rather is concerned with the assumption that the speedforce governs surfers speed the same way it does all those within the DC universe.

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Originally posted by Juntai
No. You're missing the point. Characters powers and tactics they have shown are viable on the vs forum. My analogy works, because it's just as stupid sounding.

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Originally posted by Naija boy
Huh? u just ignored the entire post. No one said speedstealing is not a viable tactic for flash to use on the versus forum. ITs simply that its unlikely to work in this scenario because of the unique situation of this particular opponent. Ur analogy isnt even similar to the issue being discussed so it certainly doesnt work.

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Originally posted by Space M ummy
what makes you think he'll be able to drain speed from a marvel character? answer: he can't

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Originally posted by Juntai
No, the argument was suggesting originally that Wally can't use his powers to control kinetic energy because Speed-force doesn't exist in Marvel. Pay attention before you leap in headfirst.

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Originally posted by Naija boy
My bad on that. I didnt see the first post u quoted.