Thanos is not close to being 2x stronger than Thor (let alone whatever inflated idea you have of his strength level). He's a lot less stronger than that, don't be ridiculous.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
Yeah that's why Thanos was able to physically stalemate insane power gem Thor for a while. Unless you think insane power gem Thor isn't at least twice as strong as regular Thor.
Warlock believed that it was not Warrior Madness, and was proven right by Thanos and his instruments. Beta Ray Bill and Sif however assumed it was in fact Warrior Madness. They were proven to be incorrect.
Beta Ray Bill claimed that Thor drew strength from his insanity and Strange said that his rage fueled him. That is more than likely metaphysical crap similar to a hero drawing strength from his loved ones or Thor noticeably outperforming his previous performance when enraged. Far more believable than Thor suddenly getting actual dynamic strength in order to explain a few losses because you don't like them.
I honestly don't think people ever understood the premise of the arc. Thor went mad because Odin manipulated his soul and tore it down to bits and pieces. He gave away part of what makes Thor himself, part of his power, away.
You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Thor fan than me, but even I don't think Thor's well of strength is that deep.
Are you referring to the second encounter when Thanos punches a leaping Thor over his head?
When has Thanos ever overpowered any Hulk but the Merged/Professor incarnation ? Thor was pushing that Hulk to it's very limits -he nearly turned into Banner- in a fight he was staging.
Mangog had the strength edge but he was not overpowering Thor easily. Silver Age Mangog was capable of doing so, but Jurgen's Mangog is far beneath the original.
Not the most concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority but whatever. Thanos had at the very least a durability edge.
I just noticed how whenever it's in the favor of the Titan, that Thanos being a clone is never mentioned but when it doesn't suit you, the first response is that it's a clone.
For the record, I'd refrain from bringing up a scene where Thor with double the strength beats down a significantly amped Thanos -even if we assume the clone is weaker at base, I doubt the gap was noticeable- while trying to argue that the Titan has more than double Thor's strength.
Tyrant took them down relatively easily, but he never one shotted Gladiator, Bill, or Surfer as I recall. For the record, Thanos did have a power up.
Doesn't prove a strength superiority to Thor unfortunately.
I'm fine with you thinking Thanos has the strength edge over Thor -over twice as strong is utter bullshit- but you don't have the most solid of reasons.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on May 24th, 2011 at 08:10 PM
Since they were trading blows I don't see how it would factor. Not to mention he wasn't even going to win a purely physical battle in the long run. If PG Thor is assumed to be twice as strong, then Thanos escaping the altercation doesn't really help your case.
People don't seem to grasp just what it means to be twice as strong as a guy like Thor. You don't even have to be as strong as Thor to be able to hurt him or beat him in a physical battle.
Just being on that millions of tons+ range would make you dangerous to teams of similar people. It's why guys like Superman, Black Adam et al have team busting feats. To be twice as strong as them... there's just no conclusive proof.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
Last edited by Allankles on May 24th, 2011 at 08:11 PM
We've been over this before... The fact is, two people VERY familiar with Thor attributed what he was able to do with WM. Whether it was true WM or not is irrelevent to Thor NEVER being able to deal with the people he did in the manner he did. There is nothing that can refute this fact. So what it was true WM or quasi WM it matters not. Thor was more powerful in this state then in a normal state. Period.
Yes I am, and the ease it was done with. Thor has NEVER manhandled or tossed Thanos aside. Ever. In fact, Thor or the heroes know he can't take on Thanos alone. He needs help and help is usually there.
Rage, the facts are simple and you know.. pretty much every hulk vs. Thor fight... is shown as Hulk being stronger than Thor but Thor using his skill and versatility in combat to level the playing field or give hiim the advantage. You know this to be true just like I do. That is how the fights are portrayed. Thus, when Thanos easily overpowered The Hulk with another brick (Thing) at the same time, and mocked their strength, yet it's futher proof of how strong Thanos is. Shoot a long time Hulk writer even made the point clear when asked about how Thanos compares to Hulk in strength. He said very clear... Thanos is in his own League. Which exactly played out in their only encounter.
I didn't think I needed to mention it was a clone, because that in fact, helps my case as you well know. I assume people know this and have read the arc in question. The fact is, an inferior clone ordered around mangog, and when mangog got smart and testy, Thanos put him in check. Period. Sure, this isn't a strength feat per se, but it does prove that magog felt Thanos was above him in strenght or power or whatever you'd like to use. I've never seen mangog take orders from anyone, let alone obey someone he can overpower and beat. Doesn't happen.
I'm starting to think you didn't read when Tyrant fought the peak heralds with the way you talk about the fight. BRB WAS one shot with ease. Surfer was one shot and put down... he got up after a little bit after Tyrant had punked some others.. only to be put down in ONE SHOT again.
As far as your last paragraph... do I need to find the times where you've admitted Thanos was around 2x as strong as Thor? So for you to say it's "utter bullshit" to think that is well, laughable and not smart on your part.
No, Beta Ray Bill and Sif attributed his insanity to the Warrior Madness. Assuming Thor has somehow been amped because he's become less than what he once was is both illogical and asinine imo.
What is your definition of a normal state? An everyday Thor? As long as you accept that Thor can operate on that level when pissed off or angry, then I'm fine with it.
So Thor leaping through the air and getting knocked over for zero effect is an illustration of superior strength? I might as well argue that Masterson knocking Thanos to the ground and preventing him from gaining the Infinity Gauntlet is an illustration of superior strength.
Have you read any of their fights? How did you come to the conclusion that in all their battles, Thor is illustrated as inferior strength wise and relies on skill/speed?
Please don't go down this road of stupidity because you will lose. The evidence simply isn't there. Of course, that's never stopped you before.
Who gives a shit if Thanos overpowered the Professor Hulk and the Thing?
Like I said, not a very concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority. Weaker characters have punked stronger characters in the past.
For the record, Jurgen's Mangog was noticeably different from past incarnations for some reason. I have no other evidence to make a comparison to. For all I know, Loki could have ordered around that incarnation.
That being said, I believe Jurgens intended for Thanos to be overall more powerful than Mangog. Or at least more formidable. That was intended to be the real Thanos after all, and I read it in such a context.
You and I have different definitions of ease. I didn't read the fight? Bill was struck at the very least twice by Tyrant. The same can be said for Gladiator and Surfer.
Now that I think about it, after being struck twice, I believe Bill might not have been down. IIRC when Tyrant blasts Gladiator, Bill was shown to be on his knee or getting up. Don't take that as gospel however. I can't be too sure as I don't have access to the issue.
Don't put words in my mouth. My statement was very clear. The notion that Thanos is over twice as strong as Thor is bullshit.
Find a quote where I point out the Titan having a 2x strength advantage. If nothing else other than for shit and giggles. The biggest edge in strength I can ever recall giving the Titan is a 50% one. And even then...
The Thor power gem battle against him pretty much proves it in my book. It's never been stated he's twice as strong, three times, or anything else so it's just heavily supported by their on panel encounters.
Thor ran off a weakened Galactus after he was fighting ego using his mot powerful attack. Since then Galactus has owned Thor and company easily. Galactus being weakened is the key word.
Rage doesn't believe anything he posts he's not even a Thor fan any longer.
Ummmm yeah I'm pretty much okay with that. As long as you agree that Thor doesn't normally operate at that level, and that it's a boost of sorts. So I guess we agree.
Fair enough. The point was more that Thanos can dispatch of, and has dispatched Thor in an ease fashion before i.e. little effort. Thor.. has NEVER done any such thing with Thanos. So, while not a strength feat per se, I would then argue.. how could Thor be so much stronger than Thanos and yet not once ever overpower him, manhandle him or beat him with ease as Thanos has.
Really? So you don't feel there fight are generally portrayed as Hulk being physical stronger (even if a little) while Thor is strong but relies more on his skill? I pretty much gather that feeling from pretty much every fight they have ever had.
We pretty much agree on the Mangog/Thanos scene so not much to comment there.
So let me ask for your clarification now of your stance... Do you feel Thor is stronger than Thanos or how do you rank them?
Thanos doesn't need to beat insane PG Thor to prove he's stronger than regular Thor.
The point is he was stalemating insane PG Thor physically for a while. It's obvious he couldn't stalemate him forever though since Thor was tapping into the PG and growing stronger by the second.
Unless you think insane PG Thor is the same strength level as regular Thor (which would be ludicrous) than it's clear evidence that Thanos is stronger than regular Thor.
Frankly, the above scenes are better demonstrations of strength than what you referenced.
Then you haven't been reading their confrontations or haven't read them in a while. Thor uses little to no skill/speed against Hulk and stands toe to toe for very extended periods of time (Hours and such) and does not miss a beat. The earliest I would allow for Hulk having some type of small strength advantage in a battle is #385 where a an enraged Bannerless Hulk finally gains the edge when Thor gets distracted. Moments before, Hulk and Thor locked up in a test of strength to a stalemate. At that point, that was like their 6th confrontation.
I've made my position clear. I think Thanos should have the strength edge over a high end strongman like Thor but the Odinson would give him a run for his money. I also don't find it implausible that he could even overcome Thanos similar to a Kurse/Destroyer type situation when pushed far enough. Before you overreact, that doesn't mean Thor > Thanos.
Simply put, I doubt he's twice as strong as Thor. If Thor was at 100, Thanos would be no higher than 150 in my book. That's more than fair imho.
I think Thanos should stay dead. If he becomes a regularly appearing villain, sooner or later he'll be the main villain in a book such as Thor or Avengers and his stock might plummet. I don't really care about shit like that but I wager you do.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on May 25th, 2011 at 01:51 AM
A case could be made that Thanos is stronger than Thor. But not close to 2x. You don't have to be anywhere close to 2x as strong to outmuscle an opponent when you're talking about people at those levels of strength. Just a facor of .2 i.e. 1.2x stronger, could mean an astronomical difference in strength.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
Last edited by Allankles on May 25th, 2011 at 03:56 AM
For example, if character one can apply 10,000,000 tons of force then the other, who is 1.2x stronger, and can apply 12,000,000 tons. That means the stronger character would overpower the weaker by 2,000,000 tons if the two engaged in a grapple. This is enough to make the weaker look like a baby or worst (a rag doll).
If the two pushed against each other then the stronger would not only win but push the weaker with 2,000,000 tons backwards against their will.
This would send them to another state with ease.
So let me ask you then, how much stronger do you think insane PG Thor is compared to regular Thor. Keep in mind Insane Thor without the PG was already wrecking teams of heralds. Thanos physically stalemated insane Thor with the PG.
And now that that is stated, lets revisit Thor at x20 strength...
If (hypothetically; lets use the above numbers as an example) regular every day Thor can apply 10 million tons of force, but Thanos can apply 12 million tons of force (x1.2 strength advantage Thanos), Thanos absolutely wrecks Thor strength wise...
But under these conditions (True Warriors Madness + Belt of Strength) Thor would be far, far, far stronger than Thanos; it would be Thor at 200 million tons of force vs Thanos at 12 million tons of force...
So under these conditions, Thors hammer strikes would be powerful beyond imagine; Tyrant would feel true pain after getting hit by him....there would be no shrugging off these blows....Tyrant is going to recieve real damage here.
That said, I honestly still believe Tyrant wins; once he sees what hes up against, I believe Tyrant can up the ante to a level thats beyond Thors ability to combat...and Tyrant will kill him when this comes to pass.
IMHO, Thor should greatly out perform Thanos, but still lose...
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on May 25th, 2011 at 05:16 PM
So I was wrong, Thor wasn't in the air? I honestly do not understand how that scene is a demonstration of strength superiority. I guess you believe that the Odinson has proved to be stronger than Thanos.
What? Thor was in the air and Thanos knocked him over himself. It's pretty straightforward. If you think that is an illustration of superior strength, then you better apply that silly logic across the board.
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May 24th, 2011 07:20 PM
at Rages excuse of Thor was leaping through the air when Thanos engaged him.
