Indeed. Moreover, the celestials apparently view Franklin as a threat to them on some level. Here is how one of the rogue celestials describe him in FF #13:
The celestial then attempts to eliminate him with concussive force beams but fails to do so, as Franklin effortlessly transforms the attack into.. harmless flowers.
Having said that, here are my thoughts.
In the modern mainstream Marvel universe, Franklin (our 616 version) has been described as being equal (in terms of sheer power) to that of a celestial.. by celestials themselves, in fact. Other cosmic entities, such as Roma, have pretty much echoed this sentiment. In a recent issue of Fantastic Four, Galactus also told Reed Richards that he feared a confrontation with Franklin, choosing to leave Earth quickly as a result. So, there's really no arguing Franklin's power level at this point unless you're simply in denial.
Now, does all that mean Franklin would, undoubtedly, conquer a celestial in combat? Not necessarily yet. Celestials, aside from their cosmic power, are age-old beings with vast intellectual knowledge. Franklin may have the potential to destroy one or more of them (with proper training), but that remains to be seen. After all, he's still a child. I think that's why the aforementioned rogue celestial referred to him as an anomaly. On the one hand, Franklin is this incredibly powerful being who is able to create and destroy universes with something less than a thought. On the other, he's just a little boy. In some ways, he's comparable to the Clark Kent character on the now defunct Smallville series. Here's why I think so. On Smallville, Clark always had the power to fly, but he subconsciously prevented himself from doing so out of fear that he would be, in some way, losing touch with his human side in the process. It was only until he finally embraced his Kryptonian heritage in the series finale, that he was able to access the power he is most famous for. Franklin, in my opinion, is quite similar. As a human being, he is vulnerable to pain, death, etc., even though he can likely resurrect himself if he so desires (as his alternate counterpart from the Rachel Summers universe once did in the Days of Future Present storyline). My point is that if/when Franklin chooses to transcend his human origins, that is when he will truly become unstoppable. For now, though, he is content being a human child; and I prefer him that way. It makes for a more interesting character and keeps him sort of grounded. With Superman, you have Kryptonite. With FR, you have his very own human shell, which he so desperately holds onto.
A couple of other points I'd like to touch on:
Some have mentioned that Psi-Lord (the teen-aged version of FR from Tom De Falco's FF run) did not exhibit power levels equal to what he is currently wielding (not to mention prior to De Falco's take on the character). Here's why. During the middle of De Falco's run, the writer (and former editor-in-chief) made the following claim: "No child born of woman has ever possessed the terrifying potential or the destructive power of Franklin Richards." Oddly enough, he then went on to send the character into the future, only to be returned as a gun-toting, time-traveling mutant whose full mutant/cosmic potential was held in check by a special power-siphoning suit of armor, bonded to Franklin's physical structure somehow. As such, this teen version of Franklin was limited to using a small measure of his psionic powers (telepathy and telekinesis) in particular. Sound familiar? Yep. De Falco tried to turn Franklin into Teen-Cable. He even gave the character hound scars like Rachel Summers (which were NEVER explained, mind you). Prior to De Falco's FF run, though, Franklin exhibited power levels similar to what we are seeing now. In Byrne's FF #245, some may recall how the child used his reality warping powers to instantaneously transform himself into an adult. In this form (never referred to as Avatar by Byrne himself, btw), Franklin wielded god-like powers. Shortly after, he defeated Mephisto in two separate encounters. (In the first one, he literally destroyed the seemingly all-powerful Mephisto within seconds -- even preventing the demon from connecting with the source of his power, i.e., evil itself!
So yeah, if Franklin, at some point, chooses to transcend his human origins, as was suggested WAY BACK in FF# 216, he would definitely prove a formidable opponent for the celestials. In the Heroes Reborn: The Return limited series, it was actually their hope that they could nurture him in the use of his tremendous gifts, but Ashema talked her fellow space gods out of it.
What else? Someone mentioned that Franklin was killed before. In my opinion, as stated above, the character could resurrect himself at any time if he so desired. Even a parallel version of the character was able to accomplish this to some degree. (And it's important to point out that certain rogue celestials were also 'killed' by members of the Council of Reeds, a team comprised of multiple Reeds from parallel Earths.) Here's another excerpt from FF# 13, where a rogue celestial resorts to a low psychological attack in an attempt to frighten off the child by alluding to his immortality: "If you want/desire/wish it, you will live forever. If you want/desire/wish it, you will see everyone you love die/perish/cease to be." Franklin's reaction to that pretty much gels with what I stated above. Just the thought of living forever freaks him out. He doesn't want to part with his humanity. Some have even speculated that he bends time and space to prevent himself from growing up.
Anyway, it should be interesting to see what Hickman has in store for the character. In Fantastic Four# 600, we see a mysterious figure offering to train him in the use of his powers. I personally can't wait to see who said individual is revealed to be!
As for my vote, I give it to a fully evolved Franklin Richards. He's able to accomplish the impossible WHEN HE ISN'T EVEN REALLY TRYING. Imagine the results if he puts some effort into it.
Full host is another story. That's multiple cosmic entities vs one. At least be fair and throw in another combatant on Franklin's side!
This is a silly discussion though because it's not just about power -- it's about knowledge and skill. Franklin's intellect isn't fully evolved yet. Give him time and we'll talk.
LT is likely able to conquer virtually any opponent in the Marvel Universe.
An intellectually evolved Franklin should be able to take down some of the celestials though -- but not simultaneously. Like I said above in a rather lengthy post, I think Franklin will become nigh invulnerable if/when he chooses to transcend his human origins. That won't happen anytime soon though, specifically because he doesn't want it to.
Considering that the celestials are cosmic entities far more evolved than humans, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't recognize Franklin for who he was. Even a low-level telepath could do that. Food for thought.
Subconsciously warping a Celestial's blast, before subconsciously warping an actual Celestial, is extremely impressive (also note that the Celestial's telepathic assault was completely ineffectual against him as well.) Those showings alone put Franklin well above the [alternate] infinity gauntlets.
However, we have no idea just how powerful those Celestials are yet--we will soon, though. Either way, Franklin isn't beating multiple Celestials any time soon.
The LT for the win and easily. In fact, the entire race of Celestials (minus Scathan and the Ascended Tiamut) AND Franklin vs the LT and the LT would still curbstomp them.
PS I love the attention that Franklin is getting now. It makes his failure and desperation to the point of burning out his powers vs a special someone that much more impressive.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Nah.
a.) What Franklin can do now is not indicative of what he could do 10 years ago (when the Abraxas arc was released.)
b.) I don't think I've ever seen someone say that a single alternate Celestial is anywhere near Abraxas' level of power. Therefore Franklin preforming well against one doesn't mean much in respect to Abraxas.
Galactus > individual celestials... Galactus had to talk to Reed because he was scared of fighting Franklin... hence Franklin>run of the mill celestials. not sure about tiamut though. Would be an interesting fight for the 2 panels it would last 1 way or the other. Personally I think full potential Franklin should take it handily. His power creep has only expanded his potential IMO and it's been a while since he's been confirmed celestial level at the least. Celestial power levels on the other hand have remained relatively consistent.
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Dec 28th, 2011 07:50 PM
