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not only do they stop lukes attacks but the give Bane strength and speed beyond even Jedi standards and beyond his already massive ones.
With then he's at least as fast, strong and Force powered as Luke and his protection would give him the slight edge.
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They die when get hit with lightning and apparantly lukes lightning instantly kills its victims. Prove that orbalisks deflect and stop the force, find a source, quote it.
Luke is far faster than bane seeing he could twirl as if he was holding 20 sabers.
Emerald lightning strips bane of the orbalisks and then luke just kicks his family jewels into the next planet.
I totally believe that The godlike ultimate potential NJO luke totally goes against the entire moral that lucas was trying to acomplish with Star Wars. Luke was supposed to be a farmboy who overcame countless odds to redeem the bad guy, giving the moral that good triumphs over evil, (sappy huh?), however if luke was capable of becoming a god, it voids this moral as luke becomes no longer a farmboy but a being of infinite potential.
i've done an alternate poll with maul bane and tyranus, i think vs grand master luke and the result was he won there so this should be concluded
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Registered: May 2005
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Laughable.
Oh. They do? The Vongs Vodun-Crab-Armor happens to be extremely resistant against lightsaber attacks and so are their amphistaffs. They possess superhuman strength and speed (at least on par with most Jedi). Doesn't stop Luke from trashing an entire army of them in the NJO series.
Lmao.
Luke by virtue simply stopped an attack that was powered by the combined force potential of more than 300 planets filled with Killiks, people that have "joined" them (among them some force users). Aside of that he's able to create loops in the force, which enable him to keep force effects up for an infinite amount of time - without even having to use his own power.
Bane is completely outclassed by Luke when it comes to force mastery. And speed / lightsaber combat? I can again only mention that Luke tooled an entire army of Yuuzhan Vong, an action during which he was perceived as swinging around 20 lightsabers at once and a maelstrom in the force (by Jacen and Jaina). Bane gets completely owned.
Not to mention that Luke can simply make himself invisible and completely unsenseable in the force (Falanassi ability - learned during the Black Fleet crisis), walk up to Bane and stab him.
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The orbalisk armour goes beyond simply being extremely resistant to lightsabers. They're completely immune to their effects, and are stated to possess only one weakness: lightning.
Where the hell did you get that idea from?
When low level combatants like Darth Maul can achieve a similar feat, I fail to see how this is supposed to make Luke that impressive. If anything, the fact that the Yuuzhan Vong aren't ranged combatants would undermine the feat, as Luke would only have had to face a few of them at any given time. Not to mention, he was force melded with the Solo twins at the time, where his abilities were being amplified.
Where exactly was it said that UnuThul was being powered by their combined force potential? We know he was being powered by them, but we know nothing of the exact degree to which he was.
Which he's never shown to be able to activate in a short amount of time. When he activated one to conceal Vader's fortress, it required almost all of his concentration to activate it.
IMHO, he does have Bane beat in that department, but outclassed? Bane, before refining his abilities for ten years, was already capable of directing an attack across an entire planet.
As for actual force strength, he possessed an abundance of it, far beyond the combined amount of the powerful BoD, which contained a legion of force users.
Really not that impressive, as I explained. Bane, on the other hand, was able to move so fast that time appeared to freeze for all the Force users around him (including Kas'im) and was able to curbstomp the mentioned Kas'im even when the Twi'Lek possessed an unfair advantage over Bane (he was familiar with Bane's personal style), and this was before refining his force and lightsaber abilities for ten years, and gaining the orbalisk armour.
The first bit's actually false, he wasn't perceived in such a way; it was stated that he might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, and again, he was in a force meld at the time.
No limits fallacy. Nowhere is it stated that he becomes completely concealed.
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Boooooriing. what a crappy idea for a thread... considering you NJO addicts take not into account what a contradiction in story "NJO LUKE" is, he wins. . . there is no point for even starting this thread....
(the contradiction in story being that Luke was supposed to be a farmboy rising against inconquerable odds to free the galaxy; giving the moral that good conquers evil.)
the concept of njo luke kind of ruins that moral and turns the conclusion of star wars into a humanistic "have enough potential and practice hard enough and you can be a god" theme.
It's a moot point really, Luke's more than capable of using lightning to a degree at which he can get past the orbalisks
Did you read the same novels as us? The Vong are easily able to keep up with Jedi empowering themselves with the force, at one point I remember a Vong fighting a trained Nohgri fighter (who are some of the deadliest fighters in the galaxy), the vong blocked a thrown knife, killed the nohgri and spun to face the rest of the group all before the knife hit the ground.
Hell, a fresh Kyp was unable to overcome a sick and dying slayer
yes, because the Vong and black sun are the same thing
Where do they mention the meld, and even if they were how does the meld empower him? Most melds just seem to help a group work better together as a group, which wouldn't matter much in this case as it was Luke alone tearing his way through the vong while the kids were busy deflecting what got past him.
I seem to recall the quote being something like the "combined power of the hive", but I can't say for sure, I was never a fan of those novels anyway.
That was on pretty large scale however, he wouldn't need to use something like that in a fight.
So? It was a ritual, not like he's actually generated the force at a global scale on his own, Like Luke has. Plus, didn't Dorsk-81 perform something similar, and I'd be willing to bet that Bane>>Dorsk, so I don't really see how redirecting others energies is really that great (to be fair to everyone here, Dorsk didn't survive after using the technique)
Unless you're suggesting Bane's force strength>lukes, this has no point.
So you have one instance of Bane utilizing a sudden powerful burst of speed, where as we've got a number of different quotes supporting Luke's speed. What's more, that quote it hardly conclusive, most of the people in the room were apprentices, the one person of note, Kas'im, may not even been included in the statement considering that when the two fight later on, Kas'im seems to have no problem keeping up with Bane, quite the contrary, Kas'im nearly pulls a win out. And when was he "curbstomping" Kas'im? When he was using a style that Bane had gone out of his way to memorize? As soon as he pulled out the two blade style he had Bane on the run.
once again, where does this meld bit come from and how does it contribute to luke, and why is "it might as well have been twenty" different then it looked like twenty? I don't understand what the difference is.
loads of crap piled upon this... the bane fanboys wont let it go that the enormously overpowered Luke would kill the enormously undercelebrated Bane.
Emeral Lightning... ripping the engines out of star destroyers... being unmoveable by even a black hole (this is bogus as black holes SUCK LIGHT IN) and if the legend of Darth Plageus is true, then Luke thie powerful, would have been able to influence the midichlorions to keep the ones he loves..... From Dying...
This would probably mean himself too, if he was supposedly this powerful..
grand master luke? wtf is this? a shriners convention? use "NJO" please.
It's not a moot point, as if they were both engaged in quick paced lightsaber combat, where Luke would logically face difficulty with pulling off such an attack attack, Bane would still be able to use the protection of the orbalisk armour in combat, such as using his body to block Luke's attacks, or using melee attacks to a degree only achievable when your limbs aren't vulnerable to the cutting power of a lightsaber.
Aside from that, it’s not like Bane can’t simply defend against force lightning with his lightsaber, or a force shield.
Sure they are, and the Yuuzhan Vong possess some extremely potent advantages against the Jedi (the mentioned armour, unique weapons and fighting style, and negation of a Jedi's force sense). That doesn't necessarily mean that their strength and speed itself is on par with that of most Jedi, as the advantages they do possess could easily make up for a lack of such attributes in comparison.
When Jedi can move at "invisible speeds" (best seen in TPM with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan), I fail to see how this compares.
Kyp isn't exactly renowned for his lightsaber ability, and this was also the first time he'd ever come across a Slayer (the fact that the Vonduum Crab Armour is molded right into the Slayer's skin would have realistically thrown him off a little bit as well). Even still, this doesn't change the fact that the Vong do possess certain advantages against Jedi that could enable them to keep up with them without being able to match them in strength or speed.
The assertion that the Vong possess strength and speed comparable to that of a Jedi remains completely unsupported.
Also, there’s nothing to suggests whatsoever that the poison in the Slayer’s body would have been negatively affecting his fighting capabilities.
Given that:
a) Luke, at the time, knew how to sense them in the force,
b) He was used to the way they fought, and
c) All Jedi should realistically outclass them in speed and strength, given the degree to which they can augment their physical attributes,
I fail to see the significant difference. If anything, it's easier to battle a large group of foes that focus on direct combat, rather than blaster wielding foes, given that you'd only have to engage a few at most at any given time. Taking into account that Luke was being powered by a force meld, and the feat's pretty worthless in this discussion.
In the Essential Guide to the Force. It's mentioned that the three joined together in a battle meld towards the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war. The battle in question is the only time they all fought together at such a time.
That’s simply just one aspect of the power. As stated on page 79 of the Essential guide to the Force:
“By telepathically linking their minds together, Jedi can draw on one another’s strength for support.”
The ability enables those within the meld to telepathically communicate with each other, have access to the perceptions of each individual involved in the meld, and draw strength from one another.
You can access the book at swtimeline if you wish, but I can guarantee you that it says no such thing. There’s no given indication of the exact degree to which UnuThul was being powered up.
Still, there’s nothing to suggest that he can activate them, no matter what the scale, in the amount of time that he would be given [by Bane] in this battle. The fact that it’s not even Luke’s power that he’s activating would imply that the scale of these loops wouldn’t actually relate on the effort required in activating them.
The fact that it was a ritual is irrelevant. Bane still had to direct the energy under his own ability.
The scale was far greater in Bane’s case, and as you mentioned, it cost Dorsk-81 his life. The fact that Bane directed the attack across the entire planet would suggest that his force awareness was on a pretty extreme level.
I was substantiating his level of power to address the asinine assertion that Luke would “own” Bane. Also, I fail to see how the idea that Bane > Luke in force strength can’t be the case. The natural potential of Anakin is the only one that has been confirmed to be undeniably greater than all before him, so his would definitely be greater than Bane's (though even then we don't know the exact degree) however why exactly must Luke’s be greater than Bane’s? Contrary to the moronic believe that Luke’s potential = that of Anakin, there’s no proof for such an idea. Aside from that, Bane, being the Sith’s Chosen One, would most likely have been intended to have the next highest potential after that, and given his level of power after so little training, it would appear logical that his force strength is at the very least comparable to Luke’s.
There’s also numerous instances in Ro2, where it’s described that his lightsaber seemed to be everywhere at once, or twelve places at once, from the perspective of someone as powerful as Zannah.
None that quite put him on Bane’s level in the speed department.
The statement refers to all present, and essentially means that he was moving so fast that none of the Force users were able to visibly see any of his movements, and that includes Kas’im. Force users don’t rely on their sight whilst in battle against other Force user, but their precognition and force sense, meaning that Kas’im wouldn’t have to be able to visually see Bane for him to be able to keep up with him.
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During the part of their fight where they were on equal footing:
Kas'im lunged in again, and the room was filled with the hiss and hum of lightsabers striking each other half a dozen times in the space of two heartbeats. Bane would have been carved to ribbons had he tried to react to each move individually. Instead he simply called upon the Force, letting it flow through him and guide his hand. He gave himself over to the dark side completely, without reservation. His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twilek's unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense.
Then he went on the attack. In the past he had always been afraid to surrender his will to the raw emotions that fueled the dark side. Now he had no such limitations; for the first time he was calling on his full potential.
He drove Kas'im back with furious slashes, forcing his old mentor into a backpedaling retreat across the floor of the chamber. Kas'im flipped back and out through the door into the hall beyond, but Bane was relentless in his pursuit, leaping forward and coming within a centimeter of landing a crippling blow to the Twilek's leg.
His strike was turned aside at the last second, but he quickly followed it up with another series of powerful thrusts and stabs. The Blademaster continued to give ground, pushed inexorably back by the raging storm of Bane's onslaught. Each time he tried to change tactics or switch forms, Bane anticipated, reacted, and seized the advantage.
The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force. Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im, but they had fought too many times in the past for him to surprise Bane now. Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.
The Blademaster became desperate. Leaping, spinning, ducking, rolling: he was wild and reckless in his retreat, seeking now only to escape with his life. But he didn't know the Temple like Bane did. Bane kept the routes to the outside cut off, slowly herding his opponent into a dead-end hallway.
Recognizing what was happening, Kas'im blew open the heavy door of a side room with the Force and dived inside. Bane knew there was no other exit, and he paused at the threshold of the room to savor his victory.
The Twi'lek stood in the center of the empty chamber, panting heavily, stooped ever so slightly, his head bowed. He looked up when Bane stepped through the doorway. But when his gaze met Bane's, there was no hint of defeat in his eyes.
"You should have finished me when you had the chance," he said. – PoD, pgs 242–243.
As can be seen, Bane was able to defend against the best that Kas’im had to offer with an “impenetrable defense,” went on the attack, and completely dominated the battle, pushing Kas’im back constantly, and even hammering the Twi’Lek with strikes that came within a centimetre of his body, which were just parried at the last possible second. As the battle continued, Kas’im was described as becoming desperate, and losing the will to continue, where his only goal was to escape. The battle ended with him giving up, and attempting to flee, where he recognises that Bane was in fact toying with him, and could have already defeated him if he had chosen to. He got curbstomped, plain and simple.
Which means little.
1. Kas’im knew Bane’s personal style just as well as Bane knew Kas’im’s, if not better.
2. Simply being able to counter a swordsman's moves doesn't remove the advantages that the swordsman gains from them, given it essentially grants the swordsman more options, and more combinations to command, increasing the difficulty of anticipating them for the opponent. Also, that's not taking into account the defensive manoeuvres provided by all forms, which Bane is not shown or stated to possess any kind of advantage against.
The only advantage that was stated to have no longer been in effect was that Kas’im could have no longer surprised him with an unexpected move, which would have given Kas’im an unfair advantage anyway.
Which is irrelevant in gauging Bane’s relative level of ability from, given that he was facing an unfair advantage that he wouldn’t against any other known combatant. Kas’im was able to wield the dual sabers with all seven forms, and was stated to have millions of moves and combination at his command, all of which were alien to Bane. As far as alien styles go, Kas’im’s was as alien to Bane as it could have been.
Already addressed.
The difference is that the former would essentially mean that Luke could wield the lightsaber twenty times faster than what the narrator considered the average combatant wielding one, whereas the latter would have meant that Luke would have been leaving a crazy amount of afterimages for the eyes of powerful Force users. There’s a big difference, and the former (what’s actually the case) is nowhere near as impressive as the latter.
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Perhaps the most thin and awe-inspiringly ridiculous claims ever made, Nebaris is unable to: a.) substantiate what the "Sith Chosen One" is, b.) prove that Bane is the "Sith Chosen One", c.) prove that it means jack.
There is only one Chosen One and it is Anakin Skywalker, conceived by the Force (or the Force via Darth Plagueis -- or, for that matter -- Darth Plagueis via the Force) with the highest midichlorian count (and therefore potential) ever.
wait... anakin is plageus's son? care to elaborate?
btw people, dont be foolled NJO luke takes this with a half that absorbs maybe half his energy... a skilled debator can whip your thoughts around and make you look stupid no matter what you say.
and yes... do tell about anakin being plageous's son...
Its also possible the Sidious created Anakin, he did say that Plageuis though him everything he knew. Unless I'm mistaken, its never been confirmed which of these Sith made Anakin.
Feb 13th, 2008 03:43 AM
FER TEA!!
