Well, Beyonders reality manipulation abilities were unmatched, but he was also caught off guard by Phoenix when she gave him all these mortal experiences/emotions.. If she can even catch him off guard with something he's not prepared to experience, maybe there's ways to defeat Beyonder and cut him off from being able to perform reality menipulation, or somehow render him unable to use his powers..
The reason I went with the Astral battle, is because that's how Osborn defeated Nate Grey, who may not be even close to the power of Beyonder but is still way, way above someone like him..
In general with comics, there's usually ways around power disadvantages. Take the battle to a plane where a cosmic isn't as cosmic, or cut them with the bone of an old god and bind them (Like happened to a 5d imp), or drain off their powers using exotic items and prep.. (Like Lucifer did with two beings with The Presences powers)
Thanos shouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell against Cosmos, except that she decided to inhabit a mortal form, and he took advantage of that. So maybe trick Pre Retcon Beyonder into doing the same, and render his body comatose?
But for the sake of argument, how could you see Pre Retcon Beyonder being defeated? With infinite prep, items, deus ex mechanicas.. Anything.
While yes, Logan would win in h2h, the problem for him is that Roy can, imo, expose Logan's biggest weakness: His lack of range. With his trick arrows (which have been impressive in the past), i can see him hurting Logan. Not sure who'll take the majority, but i think the team is definitely going to take a few wins.
Here the thing, what are we assuming are Arsenal standard arrows? It not like he consistently is portrayed with arrows or any items for that matter which would be able to take Wolverine out. I think people are assuming he has arrows that are not part of his standard gear. Also Nightwing though has equipment none of which standard items would do anything to Wolverine, but annoy him. He also tends far less it seems then Batman or Tim to uses his equipment, but rather uses his acrobatics, agility, fighting skill, and cali sticks to fight. What also worse for this to is the city land scape favors, Wolverine who is by far the most stealthy, best tracker, only one who posses superhuman senses, which mean he know were they are easily while they won't know were he is. Also though Nightwing has given it to, Death stroke he shown his lack of durability hurts him in such encounters getting taken by very few hits. Now imagine now he fighting individual who physically Death stroke equally except superior stamina, strength and durability (though depends on Death Stroke armor). He also posses vastly great damage soak. Now if Nightwing has enough trouble simply hanging with Deathstroke now he facing individual who death stroke plus, and posses weapons capable of cutting through anything pretty much. The idea that these two can not only land the range items, but ones that are powerful enough and countless of them before Logan gets to them is a stretch to say the least.
Not really your argument is there good enough to figure out a way to beat him the majority which just is not gunna happen.
They fought three times. The only time shingen did well was when wolverine was poisoned and they were supposes to be sparing and shingen was going for killing strike. The next time wolverine had to fight his way in and after a short fight killed him. Then the last fight Wolverine who now an entirely different beast from regaining memories was caught by surprises and cut his eye cut, then he destroyed shingen and kill him.
Yea which means Wolverine won’t be holding back which makes this much worse for his opponents.
DD boardline meta in many area’s and posses radar senses and superhuman senses which allow him to know his opponents attack before he makes them, and was also trained by stick who Elektra was trained by. She also suffers from CIS because he was her one and true love it not the same thing at all.
Like debating apples and oranges.
Because of many reason. CIS because she loves him, they were trained by the same guy and Elektra does not posses certain abilities like healing factor which makes it almost impossible for matt to down him.
This is a forum match they don’t suffer from the same thing they do in comics. He also never faces guy with wolverine abilities, skills and powers all in one which is a big differences. He also been wtf dropped by Slade and showed that he lacks the durability do take many slugs from Slade. Wolverine unlike Slade is more skilled then Nightwing which is an advantage which allows Nightwing to hang with slade that won’t work with Wolverine. He also has weapons that can cut through anything Nightwing has with ease and has damage soak many many times Slades own and can litterraly take Nightwings attacks all day.
Not it logical, even your own argument centers around a guy who stomps on NW and who Nightwing only holds off because of advantages he does not have vs Wolverine let a lone the damage soak differences between Slade and Wolverine
I bet this will be entertaining to see the reasoning behind this remark.
No they did not say they won twice. It said a few over a millennia have beaten him, they enevr said they won again in the after life, simply they beat him once on this plain. I order for them to have face him again they have to have died. He also stated he beaten his kind before many times if not mistaken. As some one else’s stated
I think it was a combination of the three, the main thing they said and implied was he never faced anyone that skilled before.
We don’t even know who these fighters were, what there powers and what age, your using unknown verables as an argument which holds little weight.
He lost his weapon, from a man obviously more skill, what was he gunna do? Not only is he unarmed but his opponent has his weapon (who also happens to be one of the greatest swordsmen alive) just cut Shogun who an absolute beast into pieces and posses six other blades that can cut through almost anything.
Again assuming sonic arrow or explosive arrows are standard equipment. As for sonic arrow, you assume they do anything but annoy him because? Not to mention won't Arsenal and Nightwing have to waste time putting in ear plugs to protect them selfs? Wolverine has repeatedly shown that sonic attacks like thunder claps are simple not effective any more or even back in the day the majority of the time. He also fought a creature who power was super powerful sonic attacks and was superhuman werewolf creature with superhuman speed and wolverine was still quite able to react to the creature and healing from the damage as it was happen pretty much. That creature sonic blasts were far stronger then any sonic arrow. It a stretch that he even have sonic arrows on him and even more so that they work.
Explosive arrows are gunna distract a person who walks through explosions, fights while on firer, fights when his arm is burnt to the bone, fights after crashing into the ground in the x-men black bird......but some how explosive arrows are gunna distract him? Are you kidding me? Not only is it a stretch he even have them, but to assume they do anything to Wolverine or distract him is ridiculous stretch.
what? thats absurd. That like saying anything that Batman used can be pulled out his but in any forum match? There no way that can be right, that goes against the very rules of standard equipment. It is item that are consistently used. Not simply some item he had at some time.
By such logic Logan stand equipment is a sword, magical one to boot, because he certain used it more then I bet Arsenal has used of a number of his trick arrows.
further examples of how that can't be right is Deadpool if we went by such lines of reasoning, he has item ranging from teleporting ring, spray that turn people in midgets I believe it was, bazooka , countless types of guns and explosives, tranq's that have enough sleeping sedatives to put down two T Rexes (if not mistaken)
Punisher has saintin claw, venom suit, ant mans helment whip lashes thing, pumpkin bombs ect.
Oh and Clint Barton runs around with a nuke arrow (believe that was it was), arrows designed to pierce gods ect.
This makes little senses, either your saying all these's characters plus vastly other get any item they have used as standard equipment your holding different standards which be more or less picking an choosing (though I doubt you did it on purposes)
anyways deadpool's standard gear without being ridicules and going by the same premise as PR has set up should always be using his technological bio tech sword instead of all his crappy swords he has bn showing in the last half decade..
Deadpool's bio tech sword is actually part of marvel's official marvel bio of the character as part of his equipment.
these swords sure as hell wouldnt be shattering and breaking every ten minutes like his other swords are constantly shown doing they be cutting deep into hercules and the comic fight with them wouldnt have ended with him and herc drinking but herc would have actually died without DP's swords shattering.
He will win, but it not that we don't think they will get licks in because they will, but it won't matter because of his damage soak. He faster, stronger, better reflexes, agility (debatable to some extent I guess), stamina, durability, fighting skills, experiences, weapons capable of ending this in a hit, oh and has the ability to withstand more damage then both can times 100 and thats low balling it.
Your saying any item he pretty much used is standard, despite the fact he may only used it ones years ago. Standard equipment is what is consistently used by the characters.
Thoses examples I posted are the same thing as your quote except it being applied to everyone.
I dont think you ment to, but either standard equipment what they consistently uses, or it any item they ever uses. It can switch from character to character. It a double standard that way, which I dont think you ment to do, but that pretty much how it came out.
you're missing the point. and no, you used unfair and inaccurate comparisons.
they use trick arrows as standard. so at the very least, they get c4 arrows, gas arrows, ice arrows etc, because those are pretty standard for any of the arrow family.
if i turned around and said they used their phantom zone arrow on him, that would be unfair.
my statement said that you COULD consider it standard equipment. not that you had to.
and btw? most of what batman uses in non-prep situations that he pulls from his belt is considered standard equipment. he's frickin batman.
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Apr 29th, 2010 05:11 PM
