You are confused. We are arguing how powerful the OB was in that particular arc. We are not arguing how powerful they would be in a forum fight (which is totally different).
I'm not confused...we dont base things off of single showings. Example, WWH; we wouldn't base his power level off of a single comic, we use everything as a whole throughout the WWH arc and after if its the same Hulk. Now again, stop making your own rules.
According to what I'm reading here, Cyborg Superman is at least 2 million times more durable than the missiles, and the OB's were putting out a million times more power than Superman.
Of course, Darkseid destroyed Cyborg Superman taking up a likely weaker body, but he did tank a more powerful attack than what the missiles took initially.
Because as we know, Cyborg Superman is just the meaning of durability. Notice how Superman was ripping apart his shoulder while holding Cyborg up just by grabbing him
In case it got missed: (please log in to view the image)
This is the same guy who took both of the OBs while the missiles only were able to take one and got vaporized. And Darkseid was pretty weakened when he destroyed the missiles.
Which means there is no possible argument that Darkseid hit the missiles with more force.
Cyborg >>>>>>> Missiles >> Cap's shield.
Which means Superman could just grab and crush Cap's shield.
I knew you or someone was going to post that eventually. What took you so long? I saw that years ago. The problem lies in the evidence that DS was weakened when initially striking Henshaw. But then again, Superman didn't even get hit and his arms were burning up. That means the attack was magnitudes more powerful on Henshaw than Superman. So again, that feat is a durability feat for Henshaw.
These are the scenes AFTER DS destroyed the missiles when he gained back his full power (please log in to view the image)
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So when DS struck Henshaw at first he was not at full power but it was still magnitudes more powerful than Superman himself. But at full power DS vaporized him as shown.
Now I wonder what that post could be... let's click it shall we.
As you've previously made clear, him shooting the missiles was only with one beam each. Which means that he had to have hit Cyborg Superman with twice as much power.
What happened later was irrelevant. Considering there is no conceivable argument that he could have hit Henshaw with less power.
So yes, please tell me how him hitting Henshaw with all of his might even if he did destroy him equates into a somewhat weakened Darkseid destroying missiles with "half his power".
Fact is Henshaw tanked the initial attack that was twice as powerful as the ones he hit the missiles with.
And Henshaw in no way has ever even came close to being as durable as Captain America's shield.
Why would Henshaw purposely weaken himself to fight Superman? That makes no sense. DS destroyed Henshaw in entirety, his modified self and original (which is found inside the modified self as shown on panel). DS wasn't at full power AFTER firing on the missiles and before hitting Henshaw initially. Otherwise he would have been destroyed just like the final time DS hit him. What's to explain the entire chain of events in a logical manner, Henshaw purposely weakened himself or DS was strong then got weaker then got back stronger? DS destroys missiles, fails to vaporize Henshaw, succeeds in vaporizing Henshaw.
DS trapped his consciousness in the sphere. That means he vaporized (same as deconstructed completely) all of his matter first.
I know Henshaw isn't as durable as Cap's shield. I'm just grossly going overboard to prove that the missiles where in the vicinity as Cap's shield.
Remember my true stance is that the missiles is less durable but within the vicinity of Cap's shield. This is based off the fact that Superman couldn't do jack shit to them using all of his might.
I see you are completely directing this in a way that diverts attention away from the fact that Henshaw initially tanked something more powerful than the missiles took.
Apparently all that's relevant is the second OB's Cyborg took. As opposed to the attack that's at roughly the same power at roughly the same distance as the one he hit the missiles and Cyborg with.
Explain to me exactly how the second attack is relevant though to your previous points, please do this.
Why would a body he randomly threw together with random apokalips tech be as durable? Especially after he created this because he got hit by the Omega Beams.
Also, so your argument is that DS was strong, weakened himself by firing at the missiles, and then powered himself up by hitting Cyborg Superman the first time?
That makes no sense at all.
Darkseid was either weakened when he fired the beams against the missiles, or he was at near full power. Either or doesn't make a difference. He did not get weaker between those two blasts however.
And then his consciousness suddenly pops out an entire Cyborg Superman apparently instantly. No where was it stated Cyborg was vaporized.
So you're admitting to trolling in other words?
How can you admit that Henshaw isn't as durable as Cap's shield, but maintain that those missiles are anywhere in the vicinity? Also, you've utterly defeated your entire point by admitting that Henshaw isn't as durable btw.
Back to the actual point, as opposed to your diversion about him trapping Cyborg, Cyborg tanked an attack twice as powerful as the one that destroyed the missiles. Considering that all your logic should hold true (ie, vaporizing makes thousands of times more durable), that would make Cyborg Superman thousands of times more durable than the missiles. Considering you admitted to Henshaw being less durable than the shield, you have no point at all.
Let's repeat your logic though to make sure.
Vaporizing something takes a thousand times more force than damaging it.
The missiles were more durable than Superman could output and this makes them more durable than Cap's shield.
He vaporized the missiles with half the power he hit Henshaw with.
Henshaw was still fully functional.
Which using your logic, Henshaw was thousands of times more durable than the missiles.
You admitted Henshaw is less durable than the shield.
Which means the missiles are at least a thousand times less durable than the shield using entirely your logic.
Concession accepted.
Also, since you continue to ignore this. The attack he hit Cyborg with was twice as powerful as the attack he hit the missiles with, yes or no?
You claim and believe Cyborg was hit with a more powerful OB than the missiles were hit with. I rebutt that so how is it a concession?
You didn't read my post well. You so quick to insinuate trolling. I said DS completely deconstructed Cyborg to put his consciousness in the tiny sphere. This is equivalent to vaporizing since that is also matter deconstruction. DS in the past has completely vaporized beings only to bring them back later. Maybe he recreates their body from his power. This is plausible. We have on panel evidence supporting that theory since the comic explicitly says "consciousness". The writer would have said, "For in this small sphere rests the Cyborg" if that was the case. But he said "consciousness". Also it says, "But my omega beans actually placed his LIFE FORCE here." A life force is like a spirit or soul or consciousness. That means Cyborg's body was completely deconstructed and thus he must has recreated his body.
Now as far as the OB
We have two possibilities
1. DS weakened himself after destroying the missiles so that the OB was weaker on Henshaw than those missiles.
2. DS didn't weaken after the missiles and thus Henshaw purposely made himself weaker.
Let's analyze each.
2. makes no moral sense (to purposely weaken oneself) and it makes no logical sense because it is contradicted by the fact that the original cyborg himself was inside the large machine construction. Both were destroyed.
1. makes moral sense and is logically plausible and backed by history of showings of DS bringing beings back.
And this is why I have you on ignore. Why I'm reading your posts is anyone's guess.
You aren't refuting it though. All you're doing is pointing to a different scene, with what you yourself have stated is a more powerful attack. While completely ignoring the other scene with the same strength of attack but doubled.
Again, him trapping Cyborg has nothing to do with anything. Even if he completely vaporized him while also trapping him in a ball, how is that relevant to the other scene? Considering that was without a doubt Darkseid at his peak of his power and almost a point blank blast, and he hit with double the beams, that just means he hit him way way harder than he hit the missiles. All your point could possibly be is that he hit Cyborg harder the second time. Which has nothing to do with the missiles at all.
But I see you can't actually prove he was vaporized so there's no need to stick with a scene that happened after he got hit and shifted into a random tech body. Hell, it took two hits to do this anyway.
It was never even hinted at him weakening himself after hitting the missiles. And considering he said he was at full power like 6 pages after firing on Cyborg, that is a complete impossibility.
2 doesn't even exist though. You are completely glossing over the fact that he initially took the same hit the missiles did, but with double the beams. If these are the only multiple choices you can come up with, then you might need to think a little bit harder.
There is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt no proof at all that Darkseid weakened himself firing on the missiles. This is completely made up by you.
And even if he did, he made it to full power about 6 pages after firing on Cyborg so he couldn't have been that weakened. And barely being weakened but still hitting with twice as much power would still have it outputting more force than the force each individual missile took.
But anyway, let's click on some posts shall we?
He vaporized the missiles, but couldn't vaporize Cyborg with twice the attack. Which means that Cyborg is thousands of times more durable than the missiles.
Following your logic.
And here's you saying that Cyborg isn't more durable than Cap's shield:
Which would make the missiles thousands of times less durable than the shield as well.
You think he was weakened. But unless you have proof that he was weakened to a point where he was half his original power, that would make the attack Cyborg took more powerful.
Actually, even if you did have proof that Darkseid was at half power, that would still make Henshaw thousands of times more durable since he would have taken the same attack the missiles took, but he wasn't vaporized. Your logic. In fact, following your logic, Darkseid would have had to be thousands of times weaker than when he fired on the missiles for it to have even been the same level of attack.
Your logic again. Really smooth stuff.
You trying to desperately point to a different scene doesn't change the fact that Cyborg completely tanked an attack twice as powerful as the one each missile took. According to your logic, Cyborg just got vaporized by an attack thousands of times more powerful than the one he initially tanked (yeah), so that can't possibly be relevant to the missiles.
It boils down to you admitting Henshaw is less durable than the shield. Henshaw only being damaged by an attack that was twice as powerful as the beams that vaporized the missiles. And therefore following your logic, the missiles were two times THOUSANDS of times less durable than the shield.
Your logic is an utter mess.
An absolute fact is that Henshaw was more durable than the missiles by taking the OB's in any capacity within the same story. Refute this.
Why type so much? Just be more concise and clear. And stop with the veiled posting and say what you mean.
The bottom line is you are saying Cyborg resisted twice the power as that which hit the missiles, while I'm refuting that. This is what we should be debating. Most of your post is begging the question and assuming it is true before it is proven to be in order to make further conclusions. Let's get that part straight and then we can move on.
Well, we have at least two theories.
1. OB was weaker against Cyborg initially than against the missiles (which is my stance).
2. OB was same or less in the missiles as the initial strike on Cyborg but stronger on final Cyborg (your stance).
With 1. there are no contradictions anywhere. Cyborg isn't thousands of times more durable than Superman can damage while at the same time is able to be damaged by Superman.
With 2. we get the contradiction mentioned above. Also we get that DD tanked the very same attack that ended Cyborg (since both DS was at full power and at point blank range).
I did prove Cyborg got vaporized. What is your definition of vaporized? DS completely deconstructed Cyborg's being. That's equivalent to vaporizing something but only more.
And how would it be an impossibility when DS fired on Cyborg immediately after the missiles. He didn't get a chance to fully recharge at all. Two OB in a row or in succession? But DS got a much longer time to recharge while Superman was battling Cyborg. I said Cyborg is less durable than the shield because it would be PIS if he wasn't.
Bottomline: What are you really trying to say? I'm not sure you even know. Why be veiled in your responses. Make a stance or claim. What is your explanation on why Cyborg resisted an attack thousands of times more powerful than Superman? Are you claiming that DD wasn't hit with a force over thousands of times more powerful than Superman himself? Let's cut to the chase and end all of this unnecessary writing.
So, you don't like words, and you choose to feign (...) stupidity in a way that allows you to ignore the blatant point of my post, as well as ignore everything about it, and make up every excuse in the book? Well, let's try this another way.
Henshaw took a blast twice as powerful as the missiles took and was relatively fine. According to your logic that would make him thousands of times more durable than the missiles.
Also according to you logic, Darkseid would have to be weakened by thousands of times for Henshaw to take that blast and only be damaged.
How on Earth could Henshaw possibly be less durable than the missiles?
Also, my point is that the missiles aren't as durable as Cap's Shield or even close. Feigning stupidity doesn't make that less blatant.
But yes, missiles with only one feat against Bryne Superman are as durable as Cap's Shield... I don't even know how you haven't been reported yet for that basis.
And this is shifting my entire premise to use exclusively your logic too. No outside showings. Thousands of times vaporization, etc. And you're still arguing. Hilarious.
I didn't ignore anything you said. I addressed every single thing. EVERYTHING!
You are choosing to ignore what I said without really refuting it. You keep claiming that Henshaw took a blast twice that of the missiles. I refuted that. Rebut my refutation if you disagree. That's how you debate.
I don't see why you don't get it. If we accept that Cyborg survived a power greater than the missiles then that means he is more durable than the missiles and that Superman is not powerful enough to damage him at all. But this is contradicted by the fact that Superman is powerful enough to damage Cyborg. So how can your logic be correct? Your scenario gives a logical impossibility while mine gives a plausible possibility within the suspension of disbelief.
You are pretty stupid. I just noticed this. You do not know how to debate clearly. And you are guilty of not understanding a logical post. Also I said the missiles were in the vicinity of cap's shield (like WW is in the vicinity of Superman's strength). Although I showed at most the missiles are more durable, I accept that they are somewhat less because everyone will have a phucking fit if the missiles were actually more durable. Heaven forbid.
Just because someone doesn't follow a famous religion doesn't mean they are trolling. "Oh the shield is of ungodly durability because it is famous as hell and been in comics a long time and was spoke of being indestructible. Whoever says something is more durable than it is trolling." Yet the shield has never tanked physical attacks twice as powerful as Superman. If it did then you debate by giving feats of shit the shield tanked. There are literally thousands of comics. 99.999% of the world haven't read them all. Trolling is knowing the obvious truth and still arguing against it.
I honestly don't remember but I can definitely think of some comics where he's fired off continuous Omega Beams or even twice in a row without being weakened.
But this is all moot. Wasn't it pointed out that Darkseid was continually regaining his strength after the Doomsday beating? Then Cyborg Superman wasn't hit with only two beams, they packed more power.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 6th, 2014 01:11 AM
this should cover it. I'm saving this post by the way.
