Nope none of that will work on Manhattan, to destroy him you would have to destroy the universal quantum field. She was never shown with power to do that she was a reality warper with a human body.
Everyone here is using no limits fallacy on Lucy, she never faced anyone tougher then a street thug.
Gender: Male Location: 4th Street Underpass, Manhattan
The OP has to clarify what stage Lucy is at. At 100%, Lucy wins or stalemate. Anything lower than that and Doc will disintegrate her physical body and kill her effortlessly.
Actually, his inability to affect future outcomes was explained in Before Watchmen; he chose not to alter it because his choices always resulted in a future where the Earth got ravaged by nuclear war. Which again is in line with the premise of the original comic, that established his limitations in retrospect to a MAD nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR.
In addition to that, his reality-splintering ability wasn't really him physically molding separate universes Franklin Richards-style, but it was him accidentally messing around with quantum mechanics on a grand scale. It was a result of him attempting to look further into his past, beyond the origin-point where he got transformed into a superhuman entity, and once he achieved that, the universe got splintered. Manhattan himself was a powerless, invisible, intangible being in all these alternate scenarios.
Suffice to say, Arachnid1 misinterpreted the comics.
I just checked again. He wasn't powerless. From what I could tell, he was still able to influence the choices made in those other realities causing them to splinter too. After that, he deleted all those realities because they were screwed too.
As for the rest of that, I explained how that all worked here:
Everything I've said so far is something he actually did in the before comic, so I'm not sure what I misinterpreted.
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Last edited by Arachnid1 on Aug 10th, 2014 at 07:47 PM
He did it in the comic by going back and undoing each choice he made that splintered reality in the first place. He just made his way back choice by choice until he got to undoing the first choice to trap his past self back in the machine that gave him his powers.
But not before making himself known to his past self, so not invisible either. He can choose to effect other realities just fine. He's not intangible and invisible if he doesn't want to be. Thats just how he chose to view and play with those timelines throughout the comic. He definitely wasn't powerless.
By altering his choices. A very cheap exploit of quantum physics on a massive scale. Which isn't really hard to achieve in the comic book medium by ordinary people, nevermind someone of Manhattan's powerset. Chief example being what Scott Summers pulled off in Endsong upon Phoenix-Jean's prompting, when he decided to hook up with Emma Frost, thereby undoing the "bad" future timeline.
As I have mentioned before, such a feat is hardly beyond the capability of comic book Surfer. Not to mention that even if we are to take Manhattan's hyperbole-laden commentary at face value, the power required to achieve such a feat isn't beyond the raw energy reserves of Mjolnir either.
@Supra: He was unable to stop all-out nuclear war in all the variant timelines. As NemeBro put it before: (please log in to view the image)
Hence he was powerless.
On a sidenote; photobucket has evolved into the absolute worst image sharing site I know of today.
I realize how all that worked too. It's something I explained earlier in the thread. The nature of the choices were varied though too. One of the choices was in that scene were his father opened the box he was hiding in after it for riddled with bullets (his childhood). In one reality, he made himself live. In the other, he was found dead and full of holes. Another choice was the one he made to bring his father back to life in later age. All his choices weren't simple left and right choices. They were him reality bending to change the outcome. Yes, the choices aren't him molding the entire universe to whatever image he would want (I never claimed it was), but its still far above Thor, SS, or Scott Summers. That was him existing as one consciousness at all points in the timeline and altering whatever he saw fit to alter. Creating (not from scratch of course) multiple different realities and deleting them simultaneously while playing with life, death and reality. Even the realities where he tried to make himself cease to exist or die didn't kill or slow him down. All of this happened probably in an instant for him, since he exists and functions at all points in time at the same time. That just seems far above Thor, Surfer, or Summers by good amount.
Thats why I don't see him having trouble with nukes. He should be able to turn the uranium (or plutonium, or any other element) in any nuke into sand. I'm assuming the main thing that stops him from doing just that is the loss of the ability to see past the nukes essentially blocking him from knowing exactly where the nukes hit and acting accordingly. I wouldn't call that powerless. He has the power to do something about it. He just had the same limit he had in the original comic where he couldn't see the future any more until after a certain massive event occurred. That blocks him from knowing where the nukes hit.
And even then, why cant he just go to the moon and watch from space before the nukes hit? If he has the ability to process small events on an atomic scale that pass so fast most would say they didn't even happen, spotting some nukes from orbit or something like that should be childs play for him, right? That seems like PIS more than anything TBH
Unless you mean him being powerless in a more figurative sense in which case, sure. He didn't stop nuclear war from happening ultimately. He did stop the cuban missile crisis from occurring with a choice though. I'm assuming the problem was that there was always more people with nukes to start a war, so it happened in different timelines for different reasons. It didn't matter if he stopped one, because it would happen for another reason. Which yes, is why he decided to stop messing with reality altogether and just let whatever happens in his original reality happen.
God, that comic was f*cking awesome. I loved understanding Manhattans original reasoning to not save the pregnant Vietnamese. Having the background on why he acted the way he acted at different points in the original is kind of cool.
And your images are fine. I actually prefer them like that, because I can just click on them to enlarge as opposed to having them just blow up the page. It's an improvement.
No it's not. In Phoenix:Endsong, Summers performed the exact same feat which Manhattan did, by altering his choices, and even the handbook bios corroborate the claim. And he did this despite not even having the type of powerset of a high end matter manipulator like Dr Manhattan or the Plutonian. Lol, the Silver Surfer has scared a reality warper into wishing her powers away when faced with the prospect of fighting him, and Thor's godblast has brought omnipotent beings to their knees.
If that's the case, then why did he fail to prevent worldwide nuclear destruction in every single reality which he "created"?
Because it's mostly hyperbole. Recall, that we never actually see him performing that small-event feat witnessing feat. As opposed to this, Nate Grey(who can actually perceive Planck time, the shortest unit of time physically possible), was unable to figure out a way to defeat Ares. If Nate Grey, who actually has the Planck time feat(which is what Manhattan's claim alludes to when he says that he has witnessed events so short and fast that they could hardly have been said to have occurred at all), cannot defeat a being below Thor, then what makes you think Manhattan can?
Heck, now that I brought up Nate, I'll also mention how Surfer completely dominated and overpowered God-Cable, who eventually turned out to be a non-corporeal being composed of pure psi energy.
He didn't because he couldn't. Nuclear war was the one constant that remained in all the realities that he traversed, with the exception of the prime reality(which was saved due to Ozy's efforts, not Manhattan's).
Yes, I did admit that it laid the background for why he couldn't intervene to change a future outcome. Though the premise was stupid still.
3 of those images aren't photobucket-based at all though. I used turboimagehost when the photobucket thumbs and links repeatedly failed to work.
Photobucket was an absolute horror to work with yesterday.
Gender: Male Location: Balls deep in your cerebral cortex
i was disappointed with "Lucy".
Based on the hype i was expecting some trans level shit. She did a lot of thing differently than what Manhattan was shown capable of doing, but i didn't see her do anything that puts her above him.
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Jul 31st, 2014 06:55 AM
