When it's shit that's been mocked by every vs debating board since forever, yeah, I don't see the big deal
I like to think we all have a standard of "apply the same logic across fiction or don't apply it at all"
Being pedantic as **** isn't bringing order (:uvalaugh), it's being, well, pedantic
Okay, what exactly is your definition of "direct proof", since, you know, quantifiable speed feats only happen a few times throughout the series and the rest is just unquantifiable shit and speed tropes
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But seriously, constantly punching the **** out of eachother while flying around isn't combat speed, that's just retarded
It's on par with Phenom's "Flash and Zoom zipping around the planet many times isn't combat speed", even though they, you know, were exchanging punches and kicks the whole time
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
Know what, stealthy? We're going in circles here. You insistently want to bring in logic/inferential evidence specifically disallowed in this thread and whine like a child when constantly reminded that such evidences is not considered here.... Are you familiar on how threads and rules work?
How is "being pedantic" bringing the site up/down? The whole point of why I am being overly strict with the rules I stated in my own thread is to avoid retarded back and forth evidential arguments like this. And yet you still manage to bring it in anyway, ignoring the rules of the forum.... SMFH. It is seriously like I'm arguing with a spoiled child here.
"Visually evident" means that we can either (1) see it and be able to time it ourselves or at leas be able to compare it with speed showings of the characters existing in said OP as per rules (2) be showcased via a visual tool/style/technique that demonstrates how fast they are moving (such as slowing down the environment, blur lines, etc.).
The rules of the thread has been stated. It is on the posters who wish to debate within the thread to post evidence proving their assertions. If it is absent, don't whine, just show the ones you can.
Actually, the REVERSE IS TRUE. And this proves my point exactly and shows the undependability of things like powerscaling.
Flash is a speedster. Arrow is not.
Arrow tagging Flash does not make Arrow a speedster (inferential evidence). But if Arrow gets "feats" that makes him a speedster (like running and reacting at superspeed aka. direct evidence), then he is.
Unless it's something like Yusuke vs Sensui where they're crossing massive distances during their fight (which happens the be the quantifiable speed feat, which it is), then yeah, it'll be rare you'll find a situation like this. Hell, in said series in the next arc Yusuke vs Yomi doesn't have them crossing massive distances or statements of them punching thousands of times every second, but none of us would really assume that they're much slower than Sensui despite massive power boosts
Or to take this logic in Warhammer. Some Ultramarine Sargeant Schmuck hit a Word Bearer in the span of a microsecond (there are several feats of striking in a microsecond too but eh), this would put his reaction/attack speed at Mach 4000 or so (assuming his strike moved a meter and a half). Several fights involving upper tier Daemons or Primarchs don't mention strikes happening in microseconds, but none of us would be stupid and assume that high tiers are much slower than UM schmucks in attacks speed and reactions
Or in DBZ, as I said before, Gotenks flew around the earth several times in a few seconds, but his fight with Buu where Buu beat him on the first encounter, they didn't even zip between cities, but there's no reason to believe they're going much slower
List goes on in fiction
In other words just unquantifiable garbage (as I said, they're nothing more than speed tropes), which means nothing until you find a quantifiable speed feat, which puts how impressive said thing is into perspective
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
Though if you want to play that way, fine, a vast majority of fictional fights are unquantifiable and since quantifiable speed feats can't be applied to character fights then there's no point in this
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
No, rule is you're not allowed to use them in threads here, if there's a rule where they're not allowed to be referenced, by all means point it out
Well hey if you make rules based on bullshit (combat speed fallacy, characters having to perform the exact same speed they were in their quantifiable feats otherwise they weren't going that exact same speed and saying speed tropes like blurs and speed lines are actual quantifiers of speed rather than just tropes) that was laughed out of every vs debating board since forever since 2006, don't complain when someone criticizes you for doing this kind of shit
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
Just to point out that Nam-Ek who, despite being slowed down enough (like the others) for us to follow properly, caused multiple sonic booms during the Smallville encounter. So unless the laws of physics operate differently in the MoS universe than it does in RL, he can move at supersonic speeds on the ground, despite being portrayed as moving at speeds we can follow. IMO, that's why they go out of their way to show how much faster Kryptonians are than humans, with the Faora scene. To give us some perspective despite keeping the action between the Kryptonians slow enough for us to follow.
Also, people trying to act like Faora was handling Clark like she was handling regular humans need to rewatch the film. She was completely and utterly beyond their ability to react to once she was in action. She was faster than Clark, but still operating within the same overall speed class. And she handled him because, y'know, he had never been in a fight before, and she is a trained soldier. Also, he learned quickly, because by the end of the encounter he was doing an ok job of handling both her and Nam-Ek at once, and reacting to both.
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Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 04:57 AM
I love it how people assume that even in this day and age that if a character doesn't leave blurs, speed lines or afterimages while performing thousands of super crazy speed tricks in one panel like they're the ****ing Flash in every single situation they appear in that they can just ignore any and all feats and powerscaling all day erry day
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
-Quicksilver (X-Men: Days of Future past)=4th
-Obi Wan (Star Wars franchise)=8th
-Superman (MoS)=2nd
-Metro Man (Megamind)=1st
-Agents (the Matrix)=6th
-The Beast (Kung-Fu hustle)=3rd
-Russel Edgington (True Blood)=7th
-G-Girl (My Super Ex Gf)=5th
Nobody is disputing that MoS characters can travel very fast. And I am not disputing (in this thread anyway) that they may have some sort of superspeed. Why do you think I included them in the thread in the first place?? Cuz they probably have some form of superspeed. As long as the "feats" are posted, they are more than admissible in this case.
What I have issues with is that some ppl are using the "hypersonic flight" scene to state that Superman has near light speed combat speed. Which in of itself flawed because they are basing it on travel speed and not actual combat-speed that is shown throughout the movie. This is flawed reasoning and the fact that I specifically excluded this kind of flawed debating logic in my thread only to have stealth continuously come here and insist we do things his way in a thread he didn't make, kinda makes me wanna lose faith in humanity....
So the big "MOVIE FEATS ONLY!" in the golden rule allows us to reference anime "feats" here now? Didn't know that. Guess we learn things everyday.
"Combat speed fallacy" is a fallacy written by a an angry battleboard poster and is not really a real fallacy as logical fallacies go. Glad that you use made-up fallacies in wikis by angry teenagers as your logical standard tho.
Referencing feats from different series to prove a point is a different thing than using say, EU feats for a Star Wars character (of E-616 feats for a Marvel character) in a Darth Vader vs Spiderman thread in the movie vs
Nice try, though
I should note that was written by someone fairly well known and respected here (I believe, wikis shifted location a few times so **** if I knew who originally wrote it). But yeah, dismissing shit because you don't like it isn't a valid tactic
Speaking of which, thought you were just going to sit in the corner and wait for a mod ruling, by all means do so
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Last edited by StealthRanger on Apr 23rd, 2015 at 09:21 AM
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