That was in the previous multiverse my friend. That isnt the instance i refer to when i talk of the M'kraan feat. My reference pertains to Uncanny 108 so get it right son.
On top of that if you were to actually read the comic instead of posting your misguided interpretation based on a few scans ive previously posted you'd see that Jean bonded with the team to anchor herself to reality hence the single entity references in MY scans. Jean still performed the feat under her own power and contained a force that was about to sipe out the multiverse in the blink of an eye. Best feat in Marvel.
According to the comics he was the most powerful being in the multiverse, however by his own admission he could be affected by the power of the M’kraan crystal. A power that on panel, brought an end to the previous marvel multiverse. Moot point.
Again using my scans without having read the comic or previous and subsequent stories pertaining to the matter. Galactus is referring to the Phoenix avatar, the bird like manifestation which itself is the expression, a manifestation of the universal life force (the Phoenix Force). Here’s a quote from that very scan that you seem to have bypassed or at least completely misunderstood: “ The universe is finite. In the moment of creation all that will ever be was. In birth and death there is transition, in living advancement, but nothing new is created. Life must feed on life. You are no different.” “ But I am sustained by the warmth of life fiery cycle” “Perhaps in your natural state, but it is not sufficient to maintain your activities on this plane. The Phoenix Force itself in its natural form exists without form or consciousness touching all that lives, it is the life force of creation, however to manifest and operate on the physical plane as the bird like avatar it becomes a life form unto itself. Due to the closed system that is the marvel multiverse the Phoenix in this form absorbs life energy to maintain its presence in reality. So what was your point again?
I dont know about it being bigger than 616 but the rest is cool. Still irrelevant. It was an impressive feat but its still beaten by Phoenix reforming a universe in the palm of her hand atom by atom and by the M'kraan feat. Youre outta luck mate.
Nope. That was your interpretation based on a misunderstanding of what was actually stated. If you actually read the comic or better still the arc you'd be just fine mate. In its natural state the force is among other things the energies of creation, the Big Bang. To manifest on the physical plane it takes on a form and a consciousness, it becomes the bird like avatar, which is an expression of itself and a life form. This forms presence in reality results in the absorption of life energy reserved for future generations due to the closed nature of the multiverse. I hope that was clear enough for you sonny.
Beyonders meddling with the timestream could have set off a reaction that could have potentially destroyed the timestream. Lets get that right son. On top of that Beyonder himself had doubts about whether he could such destruction and so he stayed his hand. That really didn’t help your case MM.
Phoenix exists beyond space time shes above such concepts and as the power that spawns reality she creates them.
Youre making it sound as if he made the Death abstract out of thin air. He had previously abolished Death from reality, he made everything immortal. He re-introduced Death by killing a human, no more no less. He just killed a human and therefore re-introduced the concept into reality resulting in the re-creation of the abstract Death who embodies that concept.
Im not contorting the facts at all. The fact remains that Death is a universal abstract that has counterparts in the other realities of the multiverse. One statement to the contrary doesnt suddenly erase continuity my friend. Thats something youre just gonna have to accept im afraid.
Regardless wiping out Death as impressive as that is, still doesnt cut it. Listing second rate feats will get you nowhere when youre trying to argue that he was the top being.
Altering a persons destiny is nowhere near as impressive as casually amputating timelines, killing realities as a side effect and then re-growing futures with a thought. Not as good. Given the point of your argument that’s the crux of the matter
Otherworld is an otherdimensional realm, Battleworld was a planet Know your stuff son
Youre correct the Celestials do stem from another universe, they stem from hyperspace as i previously stated however they operate in 616 and that is where there homeworld is. They were on said homeworld as stated when Beyonder battled them, therefore your point is MOOT.
Good try
Doesnt prove your point at all. Please show me where it states or depicts hes all reality.
Nowhere is it stated that the Beyond Realm is everything outside all known existence. It states that beyond known existence lies the Beyond Realm. Because of your love for Beyonder you interpreted that as meaning it was everything beyond known existence. That point was never stated or depicted, that is just your supposition. Dont treate that as fact. Beyond the U.K is France. Therefore France is all that lies beyond the U.K. Awful logic. Regardless, during the pre ret period we were shown that beyond the multiverse lies the New Universe therefore your supposition is conclusively incorrect.
Irrelevant, still not a top feat. Bigger than 616? Wheres that stated?
Secret Wars says that and yet the comments were contradicted on panel by Beyonders showings as discussed and highlighted previously. You would be very naive to take all comments stated on panel as fact unless the point theyre making is supported on panel by feats. Galactus for exampl ewas once stated to be the most powerful being in Marvel so by your logic we should ignore all showings which contradict such statements. Get outta here MM lol.
Stan Lees opinion does NOT equate to Marvel canon. Throwing around his name in some misguided attempt to gain credibility for your argument is a futile exercise. Please understand that.
The fact remains that when Beyonder made those comments the Phoenix Force as we know it did NOT exist. Jean was Phoenix Rachel was Phoenix. Just mutants with the ability to tap into cosmic energy thats all. Therefore your point is as ever MOOT. The writer conclusively did not mean what youre trying to say hes saying with that in mind.
None of Beyonders comments applied to Phoenix as going by current continuity she wasnt even within reality. By current continuity she surveys and guards all of creation and this would include the Beyond Realm which is just an other-dimensional universe as stated even in pre-retcon days. Tough break kid
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
She still needed help, for whatever reason.
Look first off, let's debate in a civil manner, You have comic book knowledge and I've learned from you as much as I think you've learned from me, I don't agree with All your points of view but who does with anyone's. We chuck up our opinions and interpretations and then we'll seal it off with the on panel proof.
That said'
The Ultimate Nullifier has ended and remade the multiverse. In the blink of an eye.
This is a fact, since it is a fact, Phoenix does not have the top feat in Marvel.
How do I know it was a Multiversal Concept he destroyed?
Because earlier in the comic Abraxas kills Reed Richards in EVERY other ALTERNATE reality, thus in order to REPAIR that, he must of involved the entire Multiverse in it's destruction and rebirth.
I'll post that scan last.
Here are the scans:
First Reed Richards using the UN to destroy the Multiversal concept of Eternity.
He did this to Destroy Abraxas and to RECREATE ALL that was back to it's original state.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
True, he would be affected by it, but not in any negetative way.
AS we both have conclusively disclosed that subject, we BOTH know that it would have merely RE-CREATED his state of primal unbeing, in other words revert him back to universe he was before he took human form.
Now let's analize this for a while.
We both know when this happened he had given Rachael enough power that even she would be able to kill him(by his own admission as you put it)and yet the only affect that a multiversal destruction would have had on him, is to revert him back to what he was originally, a universe millions of time grander than the 616 universe.
Which in anycase he could simply revert himself back to his human form again if he wished, just like he did before he even entered our reality. He knew it could not affect him in any de-powering fashion, which is why he was going to allow it to be activated to begin with.
I'm sure your right, I'm not a PF expert, still based on BOTH issues(including 108)it clerly shows and states that she needed the rest of those X-Men to accomplish the feat.
Well why would it have any relevance?
The second it proved you wrong ALL relevance went out the window you know that.
Still, I don't see the difference in terms of scale of power between creating a universe in your hands and containing a universal explosion with a thought.
They're about even to me.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
You already monolgued this before, I read your posts, all of them. There's no need to continue to repeat yourself. I understand perfectly well YOUR take on the Phoenix Force.
Still, she claimed to be the embodiment of life, and Galactus said in plain english, "YOUR NOT". Dance around it all you want, that's what it says clearly.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Please don't change the wording gs, so far your doing good, this is where you start to get ugly.
"NOT COULD HAVE"
but WILL set of a chain reaction.
NOT "Could Have POTENTIALLY Destroyed the Timestream"
but WILL SHATTER the Timestream and ALL before it.
Let's get THAT, right son.
And I don't see him having any doubts about anything,
He clearly says "yet PERHAPS what you say is true REED, without Time, there cannot be an always.
Even measured against infinity, one moment must always preceed the next"
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Really? That's your take on it.
I'm making it sound?
Let me understand this from your point of view.
Beyonder uses a monumental amount of power to erase the MULTIVERSAL Concept of Death.
But in order to "re-introduce"(your words)Death, all he had to do was kill some human and automatically Death would reappear, with out any effort on his part except to simply kill some human.
You say he made everything IMMORTAL yet somehow he's able to kill some human in order to "re-introduce" Death.
I suppose this didn't take any effort either, defying the Multiversal Laws of ALL Reality by killing someone when there is no Death.
Good try but NO.
Talk about downplaying a characters feats in order to win a debate.
Wow gs, simply wow.
The fact in Marvel Comics's Secreat Wars II series is that Beyonder DID erase the MULITIVERSAL Concept of Death, as the scan will clearly show, again.
And Beyonder did infact RE-CREATE Death,
the only part of your illusion that's fact, is that he did have to kill someone, NOT to "RE-INTRODUCE" Death,
but infact to take Death's place which Beyonder RE-CREATED in him.
This is why it took Beyonder more than a moment to RE-CREATE Death, cause it wasn't AT ALL as simple as YOU make it sound.
KMC Community Forums
Jun 14th, 2006 10:33 PM
Attachment: 
