on wookiepedia it says the maul fight was indeed canon he had to stab himself in order to beat maul, but i may be wrong about it being canon but if it is well dooku is probably a better fighter then maul since he owned obi wan in seconds when maul had a harder time.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
How the hell could you even entertain the thought that maul would "decimate" Vader? THAT'S whats preposterous. TPM OB1 utilized the darkside to contend with Maul, otherwise Maul would have pwned him. By that logic, QGJ would pwn Vader, Serra Keto, basically anyone with a lightsaber in the PT would pwn Vader....thats idiotic. You're twisting a quote to fit your argument, and it doesn't work that way. No one, especially GL, has ever said that a PT Jedi/Sith can automatically defeat an OT Jedi/Sith.
And yes, Vader beat that Maul, but no one knows what it was. It could have been twice the Maul we saw, it could have half the Maul we saw. Nothing's been released as far as how powerful it was. So that argument is irrelevant, either for or against Vader.
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Picking up some power converters.
A few quick things about Vader losing to Luke:
1) Lukes victory is a showing of Lukes power, not the lack of Vaders.
2) Vader has a lot of powerful feats, mostly in EU, to say otherwise is crazy. One failing shouldn't be all that you look at while trying to evaluate the fight.
3) There is actually a lot of evidence pointing to Luke being really powerful.
4) Spider-Man has beaten Firelord...(Tell me if you don't understand the reference and/or significance)
Luke is quite powerful, and shouldn't be underminded just because he is a Padawan. Since Luke is close to Qui-Gon Jinn (a lot of evidence shows this, there was a thread on it), there is also the fact that Vader might have been toying with Luke and just trying to flaunt the powers of the Dark Side. When Luke did hit him, it took Vader seconds to disarm Skywalker, indicating Vader's powers.
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We don't know how strong Maul was there. It could have been a less powerful version, or a more powerful version. That fight can't be used either way here.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
i know Advent, but alot of times people don't go back to read, and he was still making an argument out of Maul "decimating" Vader, so i thought i would reiterate it...sorry. Not trying to piss you off, lol.
What the hell do you mean 'the only feat'? Lightning is by far going to be the most effective move Dooku could implement on Vader, however thats not the limit of Dooku's force arsenal. He still has moves like force choke, which we saw performed on Obi-Wan in ROTS to a rather high degree.
Lets look at the movies. Dooku wtf pwns Anakin with a quick and easy burst of lightning. True, Obi-Wan does block the lightning when it is sent at him. Although to me the lightning looks very weak and was there more to intimidate Kenobi as oppose to eliminate him. Then there is Sidious' lightning which wtf pwned Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. So no, I hardly see how Vader is going to block the lightning with 'no problem' as you put it.
Fair enough. But lets look at the properties of a choke. The user attempts to kill/K.O the opponent by choking them out. In theory, if Dooku can break Vaders concentration, it will break the hold. I dont doubt that if Vader continuously performed the manouvre it would beat win him the battle, but I hardly see him whipping out a force choke every 10 seconds - especially against a much faster opponent.
I dont see what point you are trying to make. I dont see why Dooku wouldnt be as strong, if not stronger in ROTS than in AOTC. After all, he did have his array of Dark Acolytes to train and what not.
By watching TPM, and then watching the OT. Maul is far more skilled, and his speed and agility would likely overwhelm Vader in seconds.
He still kept up with him before using the darkside, Vader wouldn't be able to do shit to Maul.
And I would agree with that.
No, that's not what I'm saying Mr. Strawman, all I'm saying is that by GL's own admission, anybody in the PT movies who we actually properly see fight is a better duelist than Vader, we don't ever see Serra Keto properly fight, that wasn't my argument.
I'm not twisting shit. You are
(a) Misconstruing my argument.
(b) Arguing against canon.
Gl makes it clear that the duels we see in the PT are much faster and better, and that the OT duelists are clearly lacking in skills in comparison to the PT duelists. And that's really not that hard to believe Subject, you're just being a fanboy if you disagree, and arguing against canon.
So I'm sorry, but you have lost. Dooku is a better duelist than Vader, much better. It's a fact.
And just so you know, choke can be blocked, refer to PoD.
Last edited by The Sith'ari on Dec 13th, 2006 at 09:52 AM
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
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You do know vader has a lightsaber right? to block his lightning which a weak AOTC obi wan could do with no problem, Did you forget vader has far more powers than dooku? grip? crush? wave? as he demonstrated in the EU. And dooku choking obi wan in ROTS big deal, couldnt kill him, while vader choked some one from a ver far distance apart
Um dooku was trying to kill obi wan, he did the lightning to the same degree as he did to yoda, Dont have to lie ox. And obiwan blocked the lightsaber nice and easy
Choke wouldnt kill a force user that easily so why bother to use it? Vader could take grip to a much higher degree called crush, which is around your entire body pushing to its centre of point, There is no evidence that dooku has a defence to this technique, other that the force shield luke demonstrated in DE.
And i dont get why people think vader is weaker than anakin, even 20 years after ROTS
Kadesh, Dooku was merely giving Obi-Wan a demonstration; the way he says, "As you can see, my jedi powers are far beyond your's. Now please, back down!" makes that clear, it's pretty clear he wasn't trying to kill him with that one strand of lightning. I mean, if he really was, why only use one handed lightning when he has displayed the ability to summon it with both hands in the EU.
Dec 12th, 2006 09:10 PM
Not trying to piss you off, lol.
