Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
she never had to kiss him to do that..lol she did have a sword on her..she wasnt bothered about betraying him..she wasn't worried about betraying him to save herself(at this point because its not in her nature)..she was worried about actually tasting Jack or not before doing it..and if she would like it or not before doing it..throughout the whole movie she was fighting that temptation and now she has the chance to do it and if she likes it..then OH WELL..he's not going to be there anymore ..cuz in her eyes "Jack has to die or I die" Its just the way she is..so even if she likes it..she still can leave him there..
Its only after that she realises she actually betrayed a man she has very HUGE feelings for and that kiss is what made her realise it..It takes her a while to realize that the man means alot to her..at the time..she was taken aback by how much she loved that kiss..but it wasnt enough to make her stay(because she still left) she didnt exactly have time t realize how much she loves him at that moment..its only afterwards that she realizes that she has big feelings for him..once she has had the time to think everything over..all the times on the pearl with her and Jack..all the times he has saved her..she probably realizes that Jack would have in fact stayed..because HELLO he didnt exactly fight and shout to anyone on the long boat once she chained him up..heck he could have moved his arm away but he waited for her to clamp it shut.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 14th, 2006 at 10:15 PM
^^exactly lizs problem is that shes having the heart vs brain problem like Ive said in many posts
but putting the heart vs brain theory aside for a moment---
The kiss i think was a way to do not only to distract jack thats another story but to taste and see if what shes feeling is real. If it was just a lust thing or love.
Im pretty sure after he rescued her from the kraken and came back for her her heart skipped a lil and after he just said "abandon ship..shes only a ship mate.." this made liz realize that he dont care anymore about material things and that he cares about her now bc nothing else matters. this impacted liz and at this point she wasnt sure if her feelings towards jack was real and so i believe she wanted a test-a taste just a kiss just to see what its like. she wanted to test her feelings.
is only then that the real test was after the kiss after the kraken swallowed jack that she started to feel guilty and wanted to be with the man. When she couldnt get jack out of her mind she certainly couldnt get jack out of her heart. so this is when she realize "this is the real deal..im in love with jack."
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Agreed^^
and then of course in the hut... she remembers the way she felt when she kissed him before she left him..everything comes and smacks her in the face..EVERY little moment between her and JAck now means so much more to her becaus she decided to taste him before betraying him..and DAMN she liked it..
its not the betrayal she cares about..its the fact she's now lost a man that she is totally smitten with..she realised it all TOO LATE
He's not pleasently surprised that she actually betrayed him..cuz shes basically done it to him before..but last time she didnt go as far as to kiss him to get what she wanted..she did flirt but that was it..he smiles because he knows she could have done it any other way but she gave into the temptation of kissing him THIS time..and he just watches to see her reaction to the kiss..thats why he's so silent..he wants to see if she liked it..and yes we see that she does..and its only then that he smiles with satisfaction and says "pirate"..and then liz darn well KNOWS jack is all happy because he was right about her loving the taste of him..and she's all like "noo!" and runs off..and Jack actually loos as if he is about to burst put laughing at the denial on her face..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 14th, 2006 at 10:34 PM
^^ yes exactly it kind of backfired a lil. She thought just one kiss just one tastes and my temptation would be gone. But she just wanted so much after that but not exactly physically emotionally.
this is where she feels bad. not only she HAS to marry Will and pretend like everything is back to normal but she lost the one true person who would/could actually make her happy and make her be herself.
the corset in 1 represents that for me too, because he FREES her from her imprisonment of being one type of person, when truly wanting to be someone different
i stick by my guns when i say that what ted elliot has quoted it CRYPTIC. AND WHY is it cryptic?!?!?
BECAUSE IF HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION PROPERLY HE WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING AWAY!!
Everything they say about jack/liz makes no sense and it contradicts the next thing that they say..and this is for a valid reason, in my opinion!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I agree..but I don't think she is thinking of Will at all here..she's not feeling bad about using a kiss before betraying Jack because it was to lock him up..
She didn't show any guilt about being slightly unfaithful to Will during her last little betrayal with Jack..she doesn't care about the means she goes to to betray people..Last time she got drunk with Jack, flirted with him in order to betray him and she knows this.. but she was actually so drunk I think she doesn't know if she went further or not..
and when Jack says to her before he leaves in movie 1 - "Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us darling" Ted and terry start to crack up in the commentary they say
"how far was she willing to go on that island..and how far DID she actually go? because there is this whole element of "SHUT UP JACK!" on her face"
lol him saying that brought it all crashing back to her we all know that she didn't go very far but Liz obviously isn't so sure..because she was pretty drunk..I love the look on her face there its so hilarious..
So she has this whole thing on her conscience of being so drunk on an island with Jack and knowing she did go quite far to betray him and also not knowing how far she actually DID go..yet does she show any care towards Will when he comes back into her life in movie 1?..no because she doesn't care about what measures she might have gone to to betray Jack..so IMO in movie 2..she's not thinking about Will and how she's just betrayed his trust by kissing jack to ock him up..because she has already done similar things before when betraying Jack and she doesn't seem to care all that much..in movie 1 when she sees Will again and when we see will/liz again in movie 2
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 14th, 2006 at 10:56 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
OMG thats so true..what did they say that was cryptic when it came to the corset thingy?
I totally agree with you there and have thought this many times..the first moment Jack touches liz he frees her..and she can then do what she wants..we suddenly see her become her true fiesty self once she has been freed by Jack in movie 1..
he lets her BREATHE again by cutting that bloody corset off her..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 14th, 2006 at 11:04 PM
sorry if ive confuzzled you there LovelyOne, i was referring to the waffle analogy lol
but the writers have to be cryptic, because if they werent then everyone would know everything and therefore there would be no story to tell because everyone would know how it all ended.
The corset scene and the peas in a pod scene. those were the two moments for me and one of them was on the DELETED scenes FFS! lol
The corset scene showed him setting her free, and the peas in the pod scene showed her realising that he was right, and they were alike..and THAT is the reason she is in denial about it in 2 when he called her up on it in the 'curiosity' scene...she KNEW they were alike, she KNEW exactly what he was talking about...
But see, if i didnt know the deleted scenes were there i never would have seen that peas in the pod scene....so technically the writers had to write the line in again in 2 for the people that had never seen the scene before, but in a different way so they put in the line "we are alike...blah blah blah..."
So if you think about it....if they're kinda re-adding scenes they took out because they thought the scenes took too much away from the will/elizabeth relationship in POTC1 ....WHY are they adding them again?? ....
since the movie started wthi will and liz when they were kids showing that they both grew up together. It was focusing on the will/liz relationship in the first film and it wouldnt make sense if jack just came along and elizabeth fell in love him instantly. then it will leave Will hangging "..uh.."
this was just an intro of the characters. sure liz was attracted by jack in the first but wasnt in love. and with jack the same towards liz.
so in the deleted scenes with the scenes with liz/jack HAD to be deleted bc it was too "intimate" between them two and it will rush the liz/jack relationship.
since each cahracter changes throughout the movie they decided to add all those deleted scenes with liz/jack and rewrite it not exactly change it. so now the relationship wouldnt be as rushed and it wont leave will exactly ditched bc hes with his father. Why they had to put wills father in the second..??? so then they could have an excuse for the jack/liz relationship. in the first Will's character would be ditched and would leave the character hangging, but now that his father showed up will wont be so ditched-he'll have his father.
so it wouldnt hurt jacks character and it wont be exactly stealing Wills gurl bc Will never had elizabeth in the first plce anyways.
Gender: Female Location: Making out With my lover Chris Prof
yupp so true Chiki Mina!
But it wouldnt only make Jack's character seem bad, it would also makew Liz seem like the bad person for breaking Will's heart.
If you think about it, the movie is all about trying to get Liz and Jack together...
If Liz and Will hadnt helped save Jack by letting him escape then Jack would be arrested. Then Beckett wouldnt need the compass from him because Jack would no longer have it. Beckett wouldnt need to send Will to go get the compass from Jack,and Liz wouldnt be still in Jail. If Will hadnt been sent to get Jack then Jack never would have made Will go to the dutchman to settle the debt, and Liz wouldnt have gone to go save Will and run into Jack aong the way. and Will never wouldve been reunited with his father. But since all that did happen, now Liz realizes that she truly loves Jack, and Will will be happy with his father...just like Beckett said.....or fate intervines.....its obviously fate...and the writers obviouslouly wrote it this way on purpose!
KMC Community Forums
Sep 14th, 2006 09:42 PM
HENRY!!!!
