Yes, they can. Yoda's good but they are both good, too, good enough to give Yoda a decent fight one on one. But together they'd beat him, and Yoda isn't the strongest Jedi, Luke is, Yoda is maybe second.
I suppose it would depend on one's definition of 'decent'. As I have already proven, numerous times, Yoda's prerogative on Geonosis was to bring Count Dooku in alive, and he demonstrates as much in thought ("Captured, Dooku must be, before more systems he rallies to his cause!") and deed (only in the last salvo of their Force engagement did Yoda attempt to injure the Count, who then decided to switch tactics). Similarly, Yoda demonstrated the same attachment to Count Dooku that compelled him to willingly walk into a trap on Vjun, a planet steeped within the dark side of the Force. Despite such enhancement and the benefit of hurling a woman through a window, Dooku was still unable to defeat Yoda in combat, even though the Jedi Master seemed more focus on saving Dooku's would-be-victim. The Count even arranged for a missile to be put into deep orbit because "there was always a chance [Yoda] could overpower him".
Thus, it would seem that had Yoda entered both engagements with the intent to kill, as he did with Darth Sidious in the Senate Rotunda, it might not exactly be "WTFpwnz0rs!" but he would decisively defeat the Count without pushing himself to the limit.
As for Anakin, I acknowledge that he would perhaps match or exceed the threat posed by Dooku (in terms of swordsmanship), but I can't guarentee it, as he is a proven fool when it comes to combat tactics. Given Yoda's immense experience in swordplay, such a reckless Knight -- no matter how impressive a swordsman -- might be easy victim to Yoda.
a.) You still haven't proven that they can, though I make room for the fact that they do have a chance.
b.) Yoda is confirmed as the strongest prior to Luke, so anyone who might bump him to "second place" would also be within the New Jedi Order. Who is the other candidate?
dooku is an amaizing duelist and so is anakin. they would defenitely be able to fend against yoda together.
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."
¯Yoda[src]
"He is a fencer. Leverage, position, advantage—they are as natural to him as breathing."
¯Qui-Gon Jinn's spirit to Yoda on Dooku
anakin and dooku would defenitely be able to fight yoda with their combined saber skills and win.
Dooku is at least very close if not equal to yoda in force powers
"It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber."
¯Count Dooku to Yoda[src]
and added with anakins power/potential, past equal and in the point of more powerful.
force= vader and dooku
sabers=vader and dooku
all out=vader and dooku.
This isn't conclusive at all. Anakin's "potential" is not a factor here. These quotes have not been properly applied -- and you're citing Dooku as a source of his own power? Hardly. Refute my argument if you'd like, but this isn't going to cut it.
fine, not just anakin's potential, but all that anakin has shown. killing dooku, and wiping out the entire coruscaunt temple.
then he crushed up the medical room by getting mad (pretty impressive)
only one out of 3 quotes cited dooku as a source of his own power. others include yoda and qui gon.
my arguement is well based, if not put together entirely on official gideon protocol.
it adds up to dooku and anakin's combined power taking out yoda. as in aotc, you see dooku confronting yoda and getting beaten back, but pretty capable of holding his own in both force and sabers, imagine what he would do with someone as impressive (probably even exceeding tyrranus himself in the saber part) as anakin to turn the tide?
i really don't think dooku is close to yoda in force power.
it was stated by GL somewhere and i know someone at KMC knows where because they told me in the yoda vs sidous thread about how yoda and sidious are equals and if they are equals then dooku is no where near yoda's level of power.
but either way i think that yoda goes down after a good fight
well when Dooku said that to Yoda"clearly this contest can not be decided by our knowledge of the force" its not like Yoda refuted that statement. and if yoda thought he could have defeated Dooku in a Force fight, then he should have! why didnt he???
like obiwan sed to ankain they HAD to stop dooku now to stop the seperatists war there and then. he even warned anakin he would be expelled from the jedi order if he didnt try. so i seriously doubt Yoda was taking it easy on Count Dooku.
and that was a titanic fight, the force fight and the lightsaber duel.. everyone who saw that movie, fans or not, can see that. and if dooku didnt run we dnt know how much longer that fight could have gone on.
Also when Mace asks Yoda if he would like to spar in "Schism" Yoda replies "practice I had with Count Dooku, that was good enough." So even Yoda feels that was a good fight for him.
It wasn't a close fight at all. Yoda informed Mace Windu on Geonosis that Count Dooku had to be "captured" -- there is no statement or inference that Dooku must be killed or even if that is the only option. When Yoda confronted Dooku in the Count's private hangar, he made it quite obvious that he was not looking to kill his former protege, given that during the entire Force battle, he only 'attacked' Dooku once (deflecting his own attack back in his direction) and was content to deflect the previous attacks away from them both. Likewise, consider the events of Dark Rendezvous; Dooku gave Yoda an offer to meet with him on Vjun, a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force. The entire Jedi Council knew that it was a trap (as did Yoda) and yet Yoda chose to go anyway, for the merest glimmer of a chance that he could return his beloved pupil back to the Jedi order. And, when it finally did come down to a fight, despite his powers being enhanced, augmented, and focused by the dark side aura of Vjun, he was unable to defeat Yoda in combat, despite the fact that the Jedi Master was half distracted and clearly unwilling to kill Dooku.
During either of those circumstances, if Yoda had attacked Dooku as he did Dooku's Sith master, the Count would have been handily defeated.
i completely agree with every word. and IMO, compared to yoda, anakin was a fly waiting to be swatted. Ataru would be the deciding factor however, the fact that Yoda doesn't stay anchored in one place means that anakin and dooku can't confront yoda at once, he would constantly be changing sides in fight, something the larger humans couldn't compensate for to bring their combined strength against yoda simulataneously.
read Dookus bio on starwars.com about his fight with yoda.. it says first they engaged in a force battle neither of them besting the other. then in a titanic lightsaber battle.. Dooku "Unable To Gain The Advantage" caused a distraction to escape! In other words he ran because he culdnt win, not becuase he was necessarily going to lose. He wuld have been stupid to stick around and keep fighting, with all the other troopers and jedis on the way.
Yes they wuld have preferred to capture him alive to question him, but if that culdnt be done he had to be killed. Ever heard of capture dead or alive?? If you say they specifically wanted him alive, then thats also speculation on your half.
There is more than 1 statement from Mace Windu in the EU that he should have killed Dooku when he had the chance! Once in Dark Rendevous and the other in Schism I think. he had a chance when he creeped up on Dooku and Jango from behind in AOTC.
and I seriously doubt Yoda would have been hesitant to kill him after the number of jedi deaths he was responsible for, including Jedis. and Yoda says himself that once you tread down the dark path forever does it dominate your destiny, and that the person they were before is gone forever, so basicaaly theres nothing left to do but kill them! Yoda knows what he has to do.
ALso Yoda did grunt a lot during their fight and put on strugling face expressions. Yoda says himself "Practice sparring I had with Count Dooku.. good enough for me that was!" in schism. His fight with Sidious was much more difficult, because they were much more even, so Yoda had to give it everything he had just to gain any slight advantage, but Sidious gave it everything he had as well. Whilst against Dooku, Yoda already had a slight advantage in every area.
Sabers:
dooku and vader would end up tripping over each other and possibly harming one another with thier lightsabers because makasi hardly links up well with dark side ridden djem so. anakin too fast and brutal, dooku too slow and weak. yoda would jump through the cracks and kill them both. when anakin uses djem so, most of his swings are head and chest level, he would be hard pressed to get a hit in on Yoda.
force:
anakin stale mated obi wan but yoda stalemated with palpatine
nuff said (dooku is a non issue)
all out: combine the first two results
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Acts 4:12
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I never said that Yoda "bested" Dooku in the Force fight, the entire point is that he was never attacking the Count to the apex of his ability. When Dooku would drop rocks and debris on Yoda, he would merely stop them and knock them aside. When Dooku initially attacked Yoda with lightning, Yoda merely collected it into his hand and crushed it. Only the third time did Yoda ever fight back, by directing the Force lightning back at Dooku.
Yoda said "captured". Not "captured if possible". There is no inference or implication of death.
Why are you bringing up a point that completely undermines your argument? First, Windu is considerably more ruthless and stern than Yoda. Second, that's absolutely correct: Windu had the opportunity to kill Dooku, but out of compassion and respect for the former Jedi, he chose not to do it. It was a decision they would both regret.
Yet Yoda's actions reflect a disregard for those rules when someone he cares about is involved. Consider that Yoda chose to save Anakin and Obi-Wan in both cases rather than pursue the Count, even though a Jedi's role requires sacrifice (add to the fact that he didn't believe Skywalker was the chosen one, why save him?). Consider that Yoda went out on every limb to try to win Dooku back to the Jedi in Dark Rendezvous.
Practice sparring is hardly equitable to a fight to the death. No one is denying the Count's prolific lightsaber ability and skill in the Force. But compared to Yoda when the diminutive Jedi is out for blood? He does not, in any way, compare.
Well when Yoda did shoot the lightning back at Dooku, he deflected it with ease also. and thats what he was doing against Sidious as well when fighting him in a Force fight.. he was just kind of deflecting and avoiding all Sidious's attacks.. he wasnt doing his own seperate Force attacks, just deflecting Sidious's back to him. Thats obviously just his style.
and besides who sed Dooku was completely out for Blood... he just wanted to escape at that point. he even offered Mace and the Jedi a chance to surrender, when he could have easily just let the Droids carry on killing them. and when Mace refused, he even sed "then im sorry old frend."
Windu didnt kill Jango at that point either(when he creeped up on them). You think he felt compassion towards Jango as well?? He was giving them a chance to surrender. And that was before Dooku orderes the Droids to attack all those Jedis, and killing many of them including padawans! Once he did that and the Clone Wars began that was it. Nobody would have had any hesitation at killing him then.. Mace didnt hesitate to kill Jango then.. nd Like Obi Wan sed if we stop dooku we can end this war now. It didnt matter dead or alive.. nobody had a go at Anakin for killing Dooku did they?
If fighting Dooku was enough practice for Yoda for some time... then it must have been a GOOD fight for him. But like I sed Yoda was just a little ahead of him in every aspect. Anyone who sees that fight can see it was an Awsome Fight! it wasnt like Dooku taking out Obi-Wan with an easy Force Move, or Sidious killing 3 jedis in 3 seconds.. It was a good fight, and we didnt get to see how long it could have lasted.
Mar 20th, 2008 08:41 PM
FER TEA!!
