I'm a bit annoyed that one of them had to die though, but obviously you think that Sids is too good not to take at least one of them down. I'd have to say that Luke takes the fall though, him being the self-sacrifing kind.
Both are of a supremely high calibur of duelist. DE Luke alone was able to perform admirably against DE Sids, but failed without help. However, with the added effect of 'moved so fast that time stood still' Bane, the Duo are sufficient to take Sids WAY downtown.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
The duo will likely win, although one of them- if not both of them- will get severely injured/die in the course of the fight. Lotsa people seem to severely underestimate Sidious, so I'll put it in a nutshell; Sidious, by Revenge of the Sith (I rarely read comics, btw... Sidious resurrecting just sux, although he's my favorite villain. C'mon, where's the chosen one thing?), was the strongest Sith Lord in history, and- say what people might say- he successfully stalemated/beat Yoda (it depends on your point of view), and as I doubt Luke reached Yoda or even Obi-Wan-level strength by DE, yeah... and remember Sidious beat him faster than he beat Kit Fisto ... that's something. He woulda pwned him if it wasn't for some stupid battle meditation thing.
Now to Bane... Bane is arguably the strongest Sith Lord after Sidious (I'd say he probably has strength similar to suited Vader or Dooku... possibly higher), so, he would stand a chance. But, as Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord in history (etc, etc, etc...), he'd pwn Bane in 1 on 1.
The rest remains to see if Bane has his orbalisks or doesn't have them... if he does, one shot of force lightning (which Sidious likes to open fights with) and he's toast. Now, Luke's killed after a short fight and then Bane is finished off. If he doesn't have his orbalisks... Sidious will probably succeed in beating and killing one of them/injuring the other, but they ultimately take it.
He pwned him faster than he pwnd Fisto? I doubt it, that means battle meditation made Luke like 10 times as strong as he normally is, and if battle meditation done by someone who isn't even a Jedi (Leia) is that powerful, Kit would have just used battle meditation during the Mace and Sidious duel and Mace would have pwnd him. Also note that DE Sidious is more powerful than ROTS Sidious. In DE Luke also disabled a group of battle droids with merely a wave of his hand, and he also easily destroyed an AT-AT using the Force. He's probably near Yoda's level at least.
Why? Just because lightning can hurt Bane through his Orbalisks doesn't mean that he has no defense against it. He could probably just block it with his lightsaber for a second or 2 until Luke attacks Sidious. And if he doesn't have his Orbalisk armor, the chances of him getting hit with the lightning are just as great, and the lightning hurts the Orbalisk wearer despite the Orbalisks, but I don't believe it does more damage that lightning does to somebody without Orbalisks. Forgive me if I am wrong as I haven't read RoT yet.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
I was referring to their original battle in the Cloning Labs... the Battle Meditation Duel was a classic Good Guy vs. Bad Guy fight (bad guy more powerful, good guy wins because of the 'force of good') so it was completely crap. xD. Well, DE is in its entirety quite a load of bullshit, but w/e... it's canon, so we gotta accept it.
Bane's orbalisks make him extremely vulnerable to lightning, as you could note that during a battle he had with a group of jedi, one of them reflected the lightning back at him, resulting in Bane frying, being poisoned and ALMOST dying... little Zannah saved him. And, Bane, despite being the most powerful sith of his age, was still one of the so-called 'old sith' of the Brotherhood Era. And as Yoda noted during the novelization of his fight versus Sidious- which, incidentally, depicts Sidious wiping the floor with Yoda- the Sith, over the last millenia, evolved, and grew more powerful... for that reason, I think a burst of full-powered lightning from Sidious is sufficient to take Bane down, unless I'm severely underestimating him.
During ROTS, Sidious was immensely powerful and the strongest Sith Lord ever. It's obivious that his stronger and even more uber godly incarnation will be miles ahead of the competition. Really, as Sidious' lightning as of ROTS was strong enough to throw YODA'S, yes, YODA'S lightsaber out of his hand, and as Luke is only almost as strong as Yoda at best, Sidious could apply the same strategy; fry Bane, and put a red stick through Luke's head. It's just that DE Sidious will have a much easier time of doing that...
Note that if they both advance to lightsaber range, or Bane somehow blocks the lightning, they'll probably win against ROTS Sidious, and still win against DE Sidious.
You do know that Bane can just block Sidious's lightning with his saber. Also note that even if he doesn't then he's still not totally out. When the orbalisk's die they release a shitload of toxin's into the body, But.... by the end of POD Bane has already shown the ability to destroy all poisons and toxin's.
Also note that Bane has some damn powerful Lightning as well, with plenty of other neat tricks and Luke as of DE is probably just worse than DE Sids forcewise. In a force fight they also win.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Lol. In the only fair fight Sidious and Luke actually had during the whole Star Wars saga, Sidious defeated Luke in the shortest lightsaber duel ever. What happened in the lightsaber duel was that Sidious engaged Luke in a saberlock, and then knocked his lightsaber away. That's it. It was arguably shorter, as I've stated before, as his 'fight' against Kit Fisto, then that would mean that Luke is like Kit Fisto (or maybe higher...) in terms of lightsaber skills compared to DE Sidious. Sure, Luke was powerful- he beat Vader, who managed to kill countless Jedi even in his suited state- but DE Sidious is just insanely overpowered, to the point that he can completely overwhelm Luke in a fair lightsaber duel.
It should be noted that both Bane and Luke employed the same form of lightsaber combat- Djem So, so comparing their masteries of lightsaber skills is all the more easy. I'd say Bane is probably slightly more skilled than Luke- after all, except for Kas'im, he was probably the strongest lightsaber duelists of his age, as exampled by his defeat of a friggin' Jedi LORD along with some other Jedi, making him exceptionally powerful... he would probably give ROTS Sidious somewhat of a challenge in lightsaber combat- though he'd still get beaten- and DE Sidious could comfortably beat him. Combining these two people, they may be strong enough to beat ROTS Sidious, but DE Sidious... he'll beat them, but after a long fight.
As for the Force Lightning struggle, Sidious' mastery of force lightning is so unparalleled that he successfully disintergrated Leia's lightsaber from a shot of lightning. That's impressive to say, the least. If it gets into a 'lightning struggle' (imagine how cool that would be... ), Sidious will almost certainly win, and Bane will be defenseless. The orbalisks amplify the effect of lightning on him, similar to a suited Vader, and even if he is capable of purging the venom out of his system, the lightning could still put him out of fighting condition. Meanwhile, Sidious puts a lightsaber through Master Skywalker, and down goes the fight.
Of course, if the team would cooperate, it would be possible- with self sacrifice, of course- for Bane to distract Sidious with lightning and subsequently have Luke saber him. But other than that option, I see no way that Sidious will be defeated, between his mastery of the force (established as the greatest among all Sith Lords) and his lightsaber skills (sufficient to make a Kit Fisto out of Luke).
Luke only won the subsequent fight because of his power being amplified through the force by Leia and little Ben. If that didn't happen, Skywalker would be losing his head, and Sidious would rule the galaxy =P.
1. yes a blast from Sidious's lightning would probably kill bane if it lasted a couple seconds, however, why couldn't Bane just block it with his lightsaber.
2. Oh wow, Sidious's lightning threw Yoda's saber out of his hands, big deal. Yoda is about 100 times weaker than bane physically and he was holding his lightsaber with one hand. mace blocked Sidious's lightning with his saber and yeah, DE Sidious is a bit more powerful than ROTS Sidious but Bane is way stronger than maceis physically so he could block it with his lightsaber.
3. Luke didn't get pwnd in the Cloning Labs, he actually Force Pushed Sidious into a wall during the fight. Luke lost yes but he didn't get pwned.
Doubt it. This was the guy who, decades earlier, was able to almost make Mace "I can pwn seismic battle tanks and armies of super battle droids, as well as Kar Vastor, with my bare hands" Windu swallow his own lightsaber, despite the fact that Sidious was on his ass and Windu had the superior position. He can also disarm Yoda without visible effort, 'WTFpwnz0rs!!1!' fifty stormtroopers, disintegrate three Sith acolytes, and mortally wound Jedi Knights even while on his death bed, "barely able to walk" and where each further usage of the Force brought him closer to death.
I suppose Rule of Two Bane completely forgot that knowledge, because if memory serves, he was in fact put into a coma at the end of the novel by such a move.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Like I clarified, Sidious' successfully DISINTERGRATED a lightsaber with a jolt of force lightning, something I didn't see anyone else do... not even Bane. It's not a question of physical strength, and unless someone's going to pull off a strange force power that can shield items, Bane is not going to be able to block an assault from Sidious. He dies. Oh, by the way, Bane's strength was almost purely from physical prowess, while he, like Anakin, used the force somewhat to power his Djem So strikes. Yoda uses PURELY the force to cause him to be extremely strong and fast, and as we've seen numerous times in the past, force > brawn. Though of course it all does not matter, considering Bane's lightsaber won't exist after about 2 seconds.
Great. He pushed Sidious on the wall... now what? That means Sidious must have lost! No. Sidious calmly got up and played a little mind game with Luke, lunged at him, and after ONE saberlock, bye-bye Luke lightsaber. This is what I call pwned, as it reduced Luke to a little watchdog... yes, Luke, who resisted his own FATHER telling him to join the dark side. Evidently he was pwned, and he knew it.
I think Bane's effort's were hindered slightly by his being unconcious at the time. It's a slim chance but worth throwing it out there.
Bane is undoubtably stronger than Mace. The very fact of his being so powerful in the force would make this so. This is also combined with his life as a miner, his Sith training and the orbalisk's which magnify his already formidable attributes.
So Mace can puch through droids. Kenobi himself did something similar to this and Bane is about 100 times as strong as him
The lightsaber in question was, like, 4000 year's old, in very bad repair and being weilded by the supremely incompetant Leia. She was holding it all wrong and putting all the pressure on the hilt, not a mistake that Bane is likely to make.
To clarify, the orbalisk's don't 'amplify the effect of the lightning'. At one point Bane get's hit by 6 electrostaff's each of which could fry a bantha and which combined generate in excess of a Million volts. It is a testamount to Bane's force strength that he killed all of his own orbalisks and knocked himself out.
A very tired, old and suprised Yoda who was only holding on to it with one hand.
Bane's force storm (as seen in POD) could probably do the same.
Sith acolytes arn't exactly known for their vitility.
*Shrugs* Freedon Nadd can attack a Jedi master half a galaxy away depite being Dead. That top's Sids I think.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Oh? Bane is stronger than Mace? Are you referring to physical strength, or being 'stronger' than Mace in the force, lightsaber combat, etc... if it's the latter, you're mistaken, but yes, he is physically stronger than Mace.
However, physical strength isn't the matter- Vader, whose physical skills were at the very least equal to Bane's in terms of strength, was cowed by notion that Sidious would zap him. Why? Doesn't HE have a lightsaber? Couldn't he potentially block Sidious' lightning, if he was really quite so strong? Physical strength is NOT the matter.
Oh? The supermely incompetent Leia just happens to be the chosen one's daughter, and although I agree that she was not nearly as strong as Bane, that DOES NOT MATTER. It won't matter how you hold a lightsaber; her lightsaber wasn't tossed from her hand. It was disintergrated. That means that the lightsaber itself was DESTROYED, something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the way the lightsaber is handled. It's just an indication of how powerful the actual lightning was... damnit, Bane could nto have made anything different regarding this. He can't block the lightning with his saber, and Sidious' superior power (confirmed by multiple canon sources) will allow him to overwhelm Bane if he attempts to deflect it.
Bane did not kill his own orbalisks, what are you talking about? Could you please clarify on that? The orbalisks do not directly amplify the effects of the lightning, but the poison released by them would be more than capable of severely damaging Bane- even if he is able to eventually heal it, it will likely take sometime, and seeing as Luke will probably be quickly dispatched, Bane will die. And besides, the effect of a lethal burst of lightning was seen numerous times, and ended mostly in the death of the poor Jedi on the receiving end.
Will people decide if Yoda is to be underestimated or over estimated? Half the time he's hailed as the strongest Jedi ever who WTFPWNED Sidious (false), the other half, he's a weak little green man who can jump like a crazy muppet. Yoda is EXTREMELY strong, probably stronger than Bane (not physical strength), and by the way... for some reason, I don't think Mace was expecting the lightning. He blocked, didn't he? Although Sdious MIGHT not have been going all out on him... but, anyway, Yoda is strong and his grip on the lightsaber is also strong... that means, I seriously doubt that Bane would perform so much better.
No, it doesn't... when you're dead, but remain as a force ghost, you're omnipotent. You can do things (non-physical) beyond the imagination of 'normal' people- as Obi-Wan said, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Yeah. Sidious was near-death, meaning that he could master a fraction of his power, tops, but he rather effortlessly fried some mid-tier Jedi. And what the hell does Freedon Nadd have to do with this discussion?
Last edited by Master Crimzon on Apr 25th, 2008 at 07:59 PM
Exodus you do know when the 5 force pikes hit him he was forced onto his knees and was very vulnerable for a short period of time in which a more experience opponent would not likely let him have the chance to recover as the assassins did.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Apr 25th, 2008 at 08:15 PM
Let's not take events out of context: Bane's own lightning electrocuted him, knocked him unconscious, and caused the orbalisks to release venom into his body. In short, he is grossly susceptible to Force lightning and there is nothing to indicate that the Emperor's Sith lightning would do anything but have the same effect.
Substantiate and prove this. Palpatine was stronger in the Force than Mace, but was unable to overpower the Jedi Master in the lightsaber locks. Kenobi was more powerful in the Force than General Grievous, but was unable to compete with the cyborg's physical attributes.
Correction: Windu managed to destroy an army of super battle droids with his bare hands and defeat a seismic battle tank. Furthermore, when did Kenobi replicate such a feat? And substantiate and prove Bane is "100 times" as powerful as Kenobi.
The Emperor used the Force to disintegrate the lightsaber. Why would he not be able to do the same thing to a newer model? Furthermore, prove that Leia was "holding it all wrong and putting pressure on the hilt" and -- once you've done that -- prove how that would allow Palpatine to disintegrate it.
Yoda is capable of summoning the Force to increase his strength to ridiculous levels. Prove that Yoda was fatigued or surprised (since he had enough time to do an uber combat pose) or that his age played a factor.
Prove and substantiate this.
While I appreciate the lawyer's approach, you're no Alan Shore or Sebastian Stark (Perry Mason and Matlock are laughing at you). These acolytes were proficient in Sith alchemy, which according to the Dark Side Sourcebook requires considerable power to use. And Palpatine was able to reduce three of them to charred skeletons with lightning from one hand. Consider the damage done to Palpatine's own face in Revenge of the Sith and Luke Skywalker's subsequent injuries after Return of the Jedi (his bones suffered from calcification and he was extremely weakened even days after). This requires extremely potent energy.
Well, you'll understand if the rest of us don't put a great deal of stock into what you think. Nadd's accomplishments, even as dead, are considerable. But they exactly compare. When Leia Organa Solo visited Endor, she was knocked unconscious due to the energies of the Force emitted by Palpatine at his death. This is a person with Skywalker vitality and Force defense. That trumps anything Nadd's done.
Last edited by Gideon on Apr 25th, 2008 at 09:33 PM
He disintegrated Yoda's lightsaber? I wasn't aware of that, to me it looked like it just flew out of Yoda's hands, not got destroyed. Are you sure about that, cause maybe I'll have to watch that scene again if you are sure.
It isn't? It looked like Mace was using physical strength when he was holding off Sidious's Force Lightning.
Mybe not ll of Sidious's assaults, but I still see no reason why he couldn't block lightning with his saber; Mace did it, so it can be done and doesn't disintegrate lightsabers.
Why not? Mace's did, why not Bane's? And, so far as I could tell, Yoda's was never destroyed, it just got knocked out of his one hand and got lost in the depths of the Great Rotunda. And, Bane beat Kas'im with a Force Power, he learned lots of tricks from Revan, and brute Force does work. It worked when he beat Sirak both times, oh and he killed Fohargh using the Force. He killed Qordis using the Force. He attacked the army of light by using his and the rest of the Brotherhood's powers combined and unleashing a super powerful Force attack on them. So yeah he does use the Force to fight, too.
Hmm, I can't remember the duel that well but it seems like if Luke could land a blow on Sidious at all, he shouldn't be pwned by him so quickly. It'd be like if Kit Force Pushed Sidious into a wall and then was killed like he was.
Apr 21st, 2008 12:35 AM
... that's something. He woulda pwned him if it wasn't for some stupid battle meditation thing. 
