Lucas' own words often indicate he pretty much believes Vader to be rather weak as a duelist. Everyone in the OT, actually; except for the Emperor assumedly.
What exactly does Vader do in TFU that makes him stand out so much? I really haven't been following it much. But if anything, the OT's portait of Vader is more true to character than TFU's, it being a video game and all.
I decree ye be welcome.
EDIT:
z0MG, forgot smiley!
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Sep 14th, 2008 at 02:02 AM
Oddly enough, Vader doesn't really seem THAT bad in the EU...Rise of Darth Vader, he kills quite a few Jedi, in Purge, he takes on about 4-5 at once, in Tales, he kills the Dark Woman and is, in Palpatine's words, the greatest Jedi killer in history.
In fact, the Death Star book indicates that Vader is going to kill Kenobi and he's too much for him.
I realize Vader is usually shown to be a talented fighter and he is, but you have to ask: against who? Did he just use his lightsaber? Did he dominate? For instance, the Dark Woman would've been out-of-practice for nearly two decades... giving her diminished skills. And Vader didn't rely entirely on his lightsaber, from what I remember. She also put up a good fight.
I'm not saying he isn't good, but hardly on the grand scale. I'm only discussing his saber abilities, mind you. In the Force, he's certainly higher up.
By the way, what does DS say exactly, Lightsnake?
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Well, with saber abilities, he's pretty darn good as Purge and RoDV showed...I mean, not balls off the wall incredible, but good enough to kill a vast majority of combatants.
As for Death Star, I don't have it off hand, but it pretty much made clear Vader was pretty superior to Obi and he was going to finish it-his strength in the Dark Side being too much for Ben.
I advise checking the book out, though. If you know where to get it online, you could point out if I'm wrong
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Well, being able to ragdoll an exceptionally powerful jedi, ram khota that could block attacks that were described in the ultimate visual guide as "impossible"(gideon brought this up, its somewhere in the EU section) and causually choking kota that sent a massive tie fighter facility into critical condition with one force move.
I recall him giving starkiller a very hard ass beating before ultimately crushed under two massive pillars that starkiller toppled on him, and starkiller is an incredible combatant that gave sidious an ass beating, killed hundreds of storm troopers, toppled militaty vehicles and alot more.
Vader was shown to topple massive structures on the wookie homeworld and he ragdolled starkillers father and broke his neck pretty easily.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but most of this came from the comic and novel.
But i thought lucas wanted the jedi to be portrayed that way? Like it was in the CW cartoons?
EDIT
Forgot to mention that starkiller was also an exceptional saber duelist and he couldn't really dominate or beat vader in that category.
TFU makes his Force powers look good, but I was referring to his lightsaber abilities. He's immensely powerful in the Force, I don't doubt that one iota. Definitely deadly and combat capable, nonetheless. Going by what you wrote, TFU proves that.
I don't think Starkiller can really be considered so great if he can't beat Vader in a duel. Like I said, TFU is a video game, ROTJ is the gospel.
In a lot of interviews, segments and the ANH commentary, he seems to put down most of the the OT characters. In the Prime of the Jedi interview (or at least, the segment where he mentions the PT being the Prime of the Jedi), he flat out calls Vader, Kenobi, etc. "not real Jedi".
And he pretty much has acknowledged that Vader isn't very capable against truly great duelists. He could probably beat half of the Jedi and Sith ever to exist, yes. But against the notable ones? Not so much.
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"Hard ass beating"? Hardly. They were evenly matched with lightsabers, at least (Starkiller sliced his respiratory system in half, essentially.) then Gavin got pissed and collapsed the pillars over him.
Every time vader won the fights it was when he took him by surprise or when Gavin was a kid... the only time that they fought 1 on 1 fairly Gavin wrecked him...
For Yoda and Obi Wan to consider Vader to be very powerful means something. Lucas kinda contradicted himself when he said Vader and Obi wan's slow movements were caused by old age(Obi Wan) and being mostly machine(Vader), because in ESB he did not fight as slow.
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The thing is ram IS powerful, how many jedi or sith had the capabilities to crush an entire tie fighter facility with relative ease as well as block attacks that were described by the ultimate visual guide to be impossible to defend against?
By the way, you ARE god.. but only in your imagination and fantasies
That is because your a hippie and always walking around wearing robes