That's pretty much how I see it. One question though, is it possible that the team overwhelmes Sids in sabers before he will have a chance to dominate them with the force?
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Yoda: Dark Rendezvous and Labyrinth of Evil make it very plain that as powerful as Dooku is, he's command of the Force is nothing compared with that of his Master. And as per Stover's novelization of the Revenge of the Sith, Dooku was able to dispose of Obi-Wan very casually with the Force. With that said, when Palpatine can use the Force, Obi-Wan's immediately out of the fight. Anakin will probably be next, given his own (relatively) pathetic Force strength, and then Dooku perishes.
Sidious is not invincible as proved by Mace Windu. Since Mace was able to overpower Sidious alone with his Saber, I dnt see Sidious standing much of a chance at all against 2 of the top 5 duellists of the PT era (Anakin & Dooku)
Adding Obiwan is just overkill there.
As for the Force, yes ROTS Sidious is considerably above Dooku, but I think we'd all agree Dooku is no slouch in that department (most learned in the ways of the Force according to Dark Rendezvous)..
So having a skilled and powerful Force Attack by Dooku backed up by a simultaneous Force attack of Obi-wan AND Anakin... That should at least stalemate ROTS Sidious in a force battle.
So:
1) Sabers - Team easily
2) Force - Stalemate
3) All Out - Team without too much difficulty. Although ObiWan will probably get killed.
Dooku's style is not designed for teamwork, and Anakin and Obi-Wan have not integrated their styles specifically to take out Sidious in the way that they did for Dooku.
Also, Sidious has certainly got these guys outmatched in terms of raw speed. The descriptions in the novel put his matches against Mace and Yoda on their own plane of competence.
And yet Dooku was fast enough to take on Yoda long enough to escape at least. And ROTS novel describes Anakin to be seriously Uber as well. He's described as possibly being the fastest and strongest jedi.
I personally think Dooku and Anakin alone would be all over Sidious. They're both too accomplished in lightsaber duelling.
Sidious probably wuldnt get a chance to use the Force, and although he would hold his own for a while I think he would ultimately lose just to those 2.
I do however feel Obi-Wan would just get in the way here. They dnt need him.
Palps kills them, even in sabers. It`d be pretty much like when Mace & friends came to arrest him, except with Dooku lasting the longest until getting cut down.
Greater numbers have been suprisingly inefective is SW come to think of it.. Maul vs Obi/Quigon, Dooku vs Obi/Ani, Griveous vs Jedi in the cave, Sids vs Mace`s group etc.
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Last edited by Mshinu on Oct 14th, 2010 at 01:26 PM
Except Dooku and Anakin are far above those 3 jedis that got cut down.
You really think Obiwan and QuiGon were better off by themselves than together against Maul??
Obiwan was useless to Anakin against Dooku because Obiwan isnt good on the offense. He's a defensive fighter, so Dooku was able to easily dispose of him with the Force.
Thats also why I say Obiwan might just get in the way here and not much help.
Those Jedi Greivous were fighting were already exhausted, so neither of them could put up a decent fight.
And like I already said Mace's Group were just in wayyy over their heads.
In this fight however I do think Dooku and Anakin together would be too much for Sidious in Sabers.
Theyre both Very Powerful and Accomplished swordsmen, and would be all over Sidious, probably not giving him a chance to use the Force.
Sidious will hold his own for a while, but I doubt he'd defeat Dooku and Anakin together in Sabers.
But Obi-Wan could get in the way and Sidious might find an oppurtunity to Chuck Obi-Wan at the other 2. With Obi-wan there im not sure what could happen.. There I agree it could be getting a bit crowded.
I wouldn't use the word "far". Three of the greatest swordsmen the order had ever seen. Dooku and Anakin are better, but not>>>>kind of better.
Even still, the team wins. Kenobi's the sacrificial lamb here. Should he fall before Anakin, we wind up with Dark Anakin. Additional agression on top of his already formidable strength, coupled with Dooku's elegance and precision, and Sidious, with is 13 year hiatus only just broken, is going down.
Should Kenobi not fall, then we have 1/3 of the team providing a wall of defense in one corner, while Anakin hammers away and Dooku looks for a hole in Sidious' defense. Palpatine's got too much on his plate here to come out alive.
With the Force though, his chance of winning is much higher.
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I wonder, did Sidious use some kind of dazing scream when he attacked the Jedi in his office? Could be related to what Obiwan does to scare away the sand people when he makes his entrance in episode four. Anyway I haven`t read the novelization, does it mention the sound in ROTS?
ROTS Sidious took out 3 capable jedi masters with his lightsaber, as if they were teens. Only Mace Windu held up (thanks to his exceptional skills: Shatterpoint + Vaapad + Great Strength).
While ROTS Anakin was very good with a lightsaber; Mace Windu still had doubts that he could take on Sidious.
In case of Obi-Wan; Yoda had doubts that he could take on Sidious.
We are finally left with Dooku. He held off Yoda in a duel but he was shit scared of Sidious.
In a unified stand, 'cooperation' plays an essential role. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a very controversial team here.
Obi-Wan and Anakin do not work very well as a team (as apparent from the movies). And Dooku is not a friend of theirs. While he might cooperate to save himself, he may as well decide to flee if he sees the battle not going in the team's favor.
I think, Sidious has 50/50 chance here.
Sidious will dominate. Anakin and Obi-Wan would be knocked out like nobodies, while Dooku will put up some fight. Eventually, he will also not succeed where Yoda failed.
This is dependant upon how moves are planned and executed.
I believe that Sidious has greater chance of success in an all out duel against such a controversial team. He can use his immense strength in the force to overwhelmn the less competent adversaries.
Therefore, the situation is like this:
1. 50/50
2. Sidious
3. Sidious
Off-course! These are my assumptions. I don't expect every one to agree.
When?? In the novel Mace actually believes Skywalker may well be the most powerful jedi alive! Not that I would send Anakin to take on Sidious by himself. But with Dooku on his side im pretty sure ROTS Sidious wouldnt be too comfortable in that scenario.
Well I dnt think anyone thinks Obiwan would stand a chance against Sidious by himself. And Dooku was scared of Sidious. But then he may have been A LOT more confident to challenge him with Anakin and Obi-Wan backing him up.
I would assume the story is Dooku is just using Anakin and Obiwan to destroy Sidious. And in this scenario id say theres a good chance Sidious would flee.
Your talking about the Force fight here.
Im not sure how easily Sidious would knock out Anakin and Obi-Wan with the Force while simultaneously fighting off Count Dooku.
Oh and bear in mind that though Anakin doesnt have much control with the Force he's proved he can take more powerful Force hits than Obi-Wan can against Dooku.
Im basing it on the fight Dooku put up against Yoda, whose was pretty much ROTS Sidious's equal. I know Yoda wanst going for the kill, but he certainly was trying to stop him, and could have always gone for the arm or legs, or hands like Anakin did.
And being three of the "greatest swordsmen" ever isnt very specific. Are they in the top 10 or top 100 best swordsmen ever?? I believe Qui-Gon was also described as something similar.
There also could be a huge difference in the power and skill of say the top 50 and top 20 and top 10 e.t.c.
Qui-Gon was called one of the best of his generation, same with Anoon Bondara. But Fisto, Kolar, and Tinn were three of the best, ever. Like I said, Dooku and Anakin may be above them in skill (or brutal force, in Anakin's case), but you don't get to be considered "of the best of a 25,000 year old Order" and still get relegated to mediocrity when compared to someone better than you. Which is what use of the phrase "far above" implies. We can't have such implications because any newcomer or S_W_Legend moron could spin it that way.
Yes, and that would be significant if an official rating system placed someone on the list based on a specific score. Sadly that's not case. As it is, the difference between #1 and #2 could be vast or very small. Same with #2 and #3, or #46 and #47. Even if the Three Stooges placed dead last in a Top 50 list, it's useless when comparing it to the entire Order's membership throughout history without a specific score. If #1 scored 20,000 points and #50 scored 9386, then we'd have something to work with.
But f*ck it, there still not on the level of this dream team, and this one's a fair (if unbalanced) fight. No surprises. Sidious dies.
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Aug 1st, 2010 07:18 PM
