Your original post clearly stated that “the opponent isn’t [getting a stamina increase from Vaapad] and will get tired sooner”. Your words, not mine. Leaving to one side for a moment the fact that you have provided no authority for your stamina-enhancing claim in the first place (the novel certainly does not lend credence to your assertion), the quote I referred to clearly contradicts your statement. Mace had ”no strength left”. Translation: he was tired. You explicitly asserted that Windu’s opponents will get tired sooner, and I have provided a clear example of that not being the case.
Now what I would like to see from you is (1) evidence that Vaapad does indeed increase the stamina of the person wielding it; and (2) an example of where, because of Vaapad, Mace was given an advantage on the basis of his opponent become exhausted - and a tangentially related boxing analogy will not be sufficient. Please, I am genuinely interested. I do not have any EU literature in front of me to draw from bar the novelisation. But I shall not get my hopes up, as you are a perennial vessel of disappointment.
__________________
Last edited by Rampant ox on Sep 6th, 2013 at 11:50 PM
Dooku has more impressive showings than Windu. He has performed better against Bulq, Ventress, Grievous in sabers, etc. than Windu has. Not to mention he has held his own against Yoda without the need of Vaapad's amp.
Acording to LoE, Yoda: DR and some others sources that I didn't remember, they were equaly skilled with a lightsabers. I personaly believe, that in Shatterpoint Windu finally mastered his Vaapad to a highest degree. And all those sources have happened after SP. So i believe, that near to ROTS they were about equal, and before SP Dooku was a bit better.
Windu's favourite style is ofcourse Vaapad. I have a bit different opinion about that style then many of you, I guess. I'll show you my point:
I agree, that Vaapad was the best weapon against Sidious. But against others darksiders? I'm not sure. It'sa a BS for me, that Windu could feed himself on darksiders. He could feed himself on his own darkness (joy from fight, anger - all those feelings that jedi should control). He could also feed himself on dark side sources (like "dark side nexus" - it means source of the dark side, like on Vjun, right?).
So why I think, that Vaapad will work against Sidious more, then against others darksiders? Well, it's the fact, that I believe that Sidious on his own is some kind of "dark side nexus". For example:
Depowered lampdisks were rings of ghostly gray floating inthe gloom. The shimmering jewelscape of Coruscant haloed theknife-edged shadow of the chair.
This was the office of the Chancellor.
Within the chair's shadow sat another shadow: deeper,darker, formless and impenetrable, an abyssal umbra so profoundthat it drained light from the room around it.
And from the city. And the planet.
And the galaxy.
So, Mace was feeding himself more on Sidious' "dark aura", then on Sidious.
The force:
Dooku clearly has the advantage, but i don't think that this advantage will help him much against Mace. His force mastery let him deal with weaker enemies, like kenobi, Bulq with ease. He's much more succesluf in that kind of fights then Mace, but I dont think that it would help him against Mace.
Physical abilities:
Dooku is older, weaker. Mace is stronher, and has much better stamina, I guess. But is he faster? I don't think so. Is he more agily? I believe that not. For me Dooku is a bit more agily. For example his landing after this kick from Skywalker (ROTS).
So, for me:
Mace = Dooku in sabers, but since I believe that Dooku's Makashi is best counter aganst Mace's Vaapad, I give a small edge to Dooku.
Mace < Dooku in the force. But in this fight between them, Dooku's advantage is just a theory. If Mace wont do a mistake, Dooku's powers will be useless, so its more like Mace = Dooku (only in this fight ofcourse).
Pshysical abilities... I'll give an advantage to Mace. But if fight wont be so long, its again, more like a tie.
Why would you say Vaapad only makes Mace his equal? They are already equals without it. Add Vaapad and shatterpoint and Mace should have the clear edge over Dooku.
actually, i was wrong. it says that he was outmanuevered by mace after a brief duel, so he needed his magnaguards. i think i still maintain mace=dooku because in dark rendezvous it states them as equals
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
It doesn't state them as equals with Vaapad and shatterpoint, it just states them as equals in terms of general skill. Sidious is more powerful than Mace but we all know how that turned out thanks to Vaapad and shatterpoint.
Could you still provide the quote, please?
I meant the one of their fight, but fine. "Perhaps only Mace Windu was his equal" is hardly clear-cut evidence to say Mace = Dooku. There's also the fact that the Count actually couldn't defeat him and called on his magnaguards for aid.
It's true that Mace during his fight with Palpatine was submerged in Vaapad like he has never been before but this only demonstrates the power Mace is able to harness at his peak point. After a long, hard-fought duel against Dooku, Mace would most likely become submerged by Vaapad, too. Maybe not to the point vs. Sids, but enough to grant him the edge over Dooku. And if this doesn't, then shatterpoint will. Eventually.
__________________
"Do not go gentle into that good night"
Last edited by Petrus on Sep 7th, 2013 at 05:15 PM
Sep 6th, 2013 09:19 PM
