And Sel Makor "threatens all existence". Just because they threaten the universe doesn't mean they're universe-busters. Posing a threat to something isn't that unambiguous and immediate.
Also if normal Vitiate can destroy a galaxy then I fail to why Ritual Vitiate couldn't threaten the universe.
You keep bringing up Vitiate even though I've told you that I consider him to be inferior to much lesser beings. You instead of creating counter arguments, make claims about my motives to justify your douchiness which is nothing but sad. I don't enjoy making personal accusations like this about each other since I don't know you and don't care about you. If you're not capable of keeping it just about Star Wars, then ignore my posts.
My point is, if he were actually destined to become a semi-omnipotent universal power one day, he would be born much more prodigious and become much more powerful after all those years of training. His potential in the force is still comparable to other force users around him even though he is the greatest by a margin.
It's not my fault that your agenda is so transparent.
So what you mean to say is that he's clearly not that special because he doesn't have the feats to support the hype? Funny: I seem to recall you totally rejecting that line of thought when the criticism was the same but the subject was Vitiate and not Anakin and we're right back to square one.
{The difference being that Anakin is outright confirmed to be what he is as The Father's intended successor and the guy who cowed two beings capable of threatening the universe with their powers.}
It's fortuitous that you mentioned "double standards" because here you are, clinging to them desperately like a drowning man to driftwood.
And? You could make that remark about any other character. You can always make a comparison between any two things: a dust mote and the Sun can still be compared even if one outclasses the other by exponential orders of magnitude.
And like I said, being universal threats don't mean they're universe-level powerhouses. Abeloth ****ing wasn't. Sel Makor ****ing wasn't. Vitiate was a galactic scale threat and he wasn't even close to that level in his standing power. Do you have anything other than this extremely vague, hyperbolic statement that suggests they can take a Vitiate slurping on 200 billion stars worth of energy?
Again with the personal remarks. I know how badly you want to put me in a situation where I am trying to justify my actions to you but its not gonna happen buddy. I'm simply too cool for that.
There are other characters out there who are confirmed to be a threat to all life or have godlike accolades but I don't see you wanking or even acknowledging them at all.
In one corner, we have explicit statements about what these "actual" characters are capable of by someone who has sees them in action on the daily and who created a pocket universe to contain them.
In your corner, you have speculation about what a "hypothetical" incarnation of a character of might be capable of from people who have absolutely no friggin' clue.
And what's said about them {universal > galactic} isn't even equitable. It takes a superhuman contortionist to get to your worldview, Neph.
No, a personal remark would be an attack against your person. No one is calling you fat or stupid or whatever. Your arguments are rife with double standards, which is a fact. There's no value judgment there regarding your person whatsoever.
You didn't address my point. Vitiate was a galactic scale threat and he wasn't even close to that level in his standing power. The Father "explicitly" saying they're a threat to the universe (lol) doesn't mean they're explicitly universe-level standing power-wise. You're simply assuming the maximum level you can on vague, limited information and trying to shout down anyone dissenting to that extreme extrapolation.
I don't even see how it's that speculative or why that's such a dirty word to you. If Vitiate is capable of destroying something trillions of time greater than himself with his rituals, then why can't he do the same..... again. That's not even speculation, he can do that. We know he can do that.
The Mortis Anchorites are confirmed universal threats. Fantasy!Vitiate is confirmed nothing.
At the end of the day, we have explicit statements of fact from an expert regarding their capabilities whereas fantasy!Vitiate's capabilities are the subject of speculation from nobodies.
Your own colored interpretation is all well and good but it's just not enough. There's no contest. The Anchorites stomp.
I create logical arguments and point out valid problems with your own argument and your only response it to insult me and try to shout that you're right loud enough that no-one notices that you're totally not.... and I'm the one being silly? I don't think that's true.
Being a threat to something doesn't imply you are equal in power to it. Luke was a threat to the Death Star. Luke for moon-buster?????
Either concede that the One's being universal threats doesn't imply anywhere even close to universe-level power or continue acting like a child and shriek that you're right again. I challenge you to surprise me here, but we both know you won't.
Sel Makor and Vitiate come to mind. I know for a fact that their hype is not literal. Because their feats and actual depiction tells me otherwise. I also know that these characters' creators' intentions were not creating actual Godlike beings like say, The Living Tribunal from Marvel. They're very much comparable to other force users around them.
Now I know that you are smart enough to depict a universal being in your mind. Would it be anything like the Father? Would it even have a body? Would it even be an individual existence? When you say universal, you're referring to all of existence. You're calling them semi-omnipotent. The Son's lighting is said to be capable of melting mountains. Shouldn't it be planets or star systems at least?
Now, we know how vastly Vitiate increased his power by consuming a planet and 8000 sith lords. Imagine him consuming the Outer Rim for example. He would become a cosmic aura beyond comprehension. But thats why he'll never become a being like that. That is also why Sidious wouldn't end up doing the same thing in time(I learned about this from you if you remember).
We know how powerful Vitiate is atm. Him while x100000000000 more powerful cannot be compared to any other force user's natural potential. Anakin was never meant to be a character of such sort. Nobody is that powerful without amp.
Another thing is, Luke Skywalker. Isn't Luke's potential AT LEAST close to Anakin's? He ended up dying as a human being. Why did he not become a galaxy wide being if not a universal being?
I could go on but you get the point.
Every time I make an argument, you instead of countering them, accuse me of having some kind of an agenda which is what makes debating with you a bit boring tbh.
Where did I insult you? The "nobodies" in my post are a reference to the characters who speculate on what a post-ritual Vitiate might be capable of, not you.
No, Luke being a threat to the Death Star makes him a threat to the Death Star. I never claimed the Anchorites were "equal in power" to the universe... whatever that means??
Oh, stop. You're clearly upset given that your post has its foundation in egregious errors in reading comprehension. To recap: (a) I didn't insult you, (b) the Mortis Anchorites are a threat to the universe, (c) Vitiate ain't.
First, you do realize that this right here confirms the Vitiate agenda I've accused you of this entire exchange, right?
Second, as you yourself admit, the hype surrounding Vitiate, Sel-Makor, Sidious, etc. is all hyperbolic.
However, the Mortis Anchorites were conceived as manifestations of the Force. That's not hyperbole, that's not unsupported hype, that's not fan-invention. That's intrinsic to the conceptualization of the characters. So when The Father {who creates pocket universes} says that his children threaten the very fabric of the universe, hence their containment at his hands, and the opening narrator regards them as more powerful in the Force than anyone ever encountered before... I'm inclined to believe them.
That's the difference.
Countering them and accusing you of an agenda aren't mutually exclusive and I do both quite well. I couldn't care less about your agenda or your biases as long as you leash them somewhat. You know how highly I regard Sidious and here I am, saying he'd be stomped right alongside Vitiate.
You claim to find it boring but that's obviously not true and it's plain as day that your agenda is at work here to an unsettling degree.
Yup. Fabric, "unleashed a great danger upon the universe," "sow terror through the universe," "wreak havoc upon the universe," and defeating them will "save the universe."
"Universe" would indeed be the button word throughout the arc.
It looks like we're just going to have to agree to disagree, Neph.
You insufferable prick, that's totally deceptive of you. The whole thread you made it sound better than it was.
Wasn't Sidious threatening the fabric of the universe with his Force Storms. He was tearing apart time and space, which is the fabric of the universe so like, yeah. So that's not even that legit of an accolade.
I was about to jack it and go to bed but now you've totally ruffled my jimmies. >:[
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Feb 27th, 2015 02:42 AM
