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Vader vs. Revan
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Vader 11 68.75%
Revan 5 31.25%
Total: 16 votes 100%
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Vader vs. Revan
Started by: Rebel95

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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anyway, I guess to start off this discussion, can anyone* actually show me impressive lightsaber / combat displays by Darth Vader besides 'killer?
Is there some reason why his performance against Starkiller is not relevant?
quote:
Darth Vader's title as Jedi Killer is inferior to Revan's army feats.
Considering it puts him in Jedi killing prowess above Darth Malgus, whose battlefield feats have never been replicated (by Revan or anyone else) and Tulak Hord, who defeated an army of 1,000 Jedi in the Battle of Chabosh, I'd say it does.

Kinda of puts him above Revan as a Jedi killer as well. wink
quote:
Darth Vader may be physically stronger and have the edge in technical skill
True dat.
quote:
but Revan's faster
Which he'll counter with strength and superior technique.
quote:
more experienced
What advantages does Revan's experience afford that Vader lacks?
quote:
and has Battle Precognition.
Which let's be honest is his only absolute advantage, but it won't carry him.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 09:50 AM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Because he specifically knew Starkiller's fighting style, combat techniques, etc.

---

I was referring to his title as a Jedi killer, not the end-all, be-all killer.

I don't think any quote establishes Vader as such since Book of the Sith.

And his killings are hardly "battlefield"-related accomplishments anyway.

---

Just like he's going to counter Tano with superior strength and technique?

Strength isn't a counter to speed. You can't pound what you can't touch.

Darth Vader's fights with Jedi during the Great Jedi Purge is proof of this.

Battlefield experience is a greater tool to have than technical mastery.

Not only that but extensive battlefield experience can lead to mastery too.

I haven't seen any proof Vader even has technical mastery over Revan.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:38 PM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

I'd like to fanboy here, but I'm still coming to terms with the fact I defended Vader more than I did Jesus last night.

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:41 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Embrace Bandonism, the belief in a being beyond God, and his son, the Taris Sith Governor, who saved us from our wrongful patrol patterns.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:43 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

BTW Beni, please don't type the ****ing Holy Bible part 3 to my response.

Keep it short and concise or I probably just won't respond in all honesty, thanks.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:45 PM
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|King Joker|
Your Excellency

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Transcendent


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You can't pound what you can't touch.
(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:46 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote:
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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:48 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Beni's literally been responding to my post for over half an hour I think, kek


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:05 PM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
BTW Beni, please don't type the ****ing Holy Bible part 3 to my response.

Keep it short and concise or I probably just won't respond in all honesty, thanks.

Tbh, Beni, this isn't even a joke. Who writes an entire dissertation on why the Jedi should just let the Separatist win.

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:06 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Assuming I don't do other things while responding to your crap. roll eyes (sarcastic)


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:20 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because he specifically knew Starkiller's fighting style, combat techniques, etc.
The same being true of the reverse, not that that is any guarantee of victory.
quote:
I was referring to his title as a Jedi killer, not the end-all, be-all killer.

I don't think any quote establishes Vader as such since Book of the Sith.

And his killings are hardly "battlefield"-related accomplishments anyway.
Right because I wasn't? Malgus fought against the Jedi Order during the Great Galactic War, killing many Jedi, and Tulak Hord defeated 1,000 Jedi during the battle of Chabosh.

They are Jedi killers who Vader is superior to as far as killing Jedi goes, or rather as combatants.

So it stands to reason that he can replicate their cited battlefield/combat related accomplishments. Especially considering Hord's feat is essentially the slaughter of Jedi.
quote:
Just like he's going to counter Tano with superior strength and technique?
No shit lol. Unless you are actually implying she will win.
quote:
Strength isn't a counter to speed. You can't pound what you can't touch.
I cringed tbh.

Yes speed does give one an evasive advantage against a slower strength-orientated duelist, but it remains a fact that if they lack the strength advantage, they cannot meet their opponent head on without incurring a disadvantage. That puts them on the defense, and forces them to expend energy evading, while minimising oppurtunities to launch a counterattack.

And if pushed into a tight spot where they cannot evade, they are screwed.
quote:
Darth Vader's fights with Jedi during the Great Jedi Purge is proof of this.
Provide some (dated) examples. Your slow cyborg argument doesn't really stack up to his performance against Starkiller, who Vader repeatedly overpowers with his strength, and fails to himself achieve any real advantage with speed.
quote:
Battlefield experience is a greater tool to have than technical mastery.

Not only that but extensive battlefield experience can lead to mastery too.

I haven't seen any proof Vader even has technical mastery over Revan.
I haven't seen any proof of Revan's technical mastery at all tbh.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:26 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Making this as short as possible because I have no interest in this discussion with you:

Last time I checked they stalemated, or 'killer won, so laughing out loud

---

You missed the point. Quote me where it says Vader is superior since 2011 - 2012.

---

She's going to pose a threat / challenge despite Vader's strength and superior mastery.

---

Or they dodge their opponents power attacks, kek

We've seen this explicitly happen before in the comics.

Revan's Teleportation will suffice if he's in a jam.

---

Like I said, I don't care for 'killer. Vader knew how to fight him. He won't with Revan.

And no, I'm not going to ignore every Vader fight besides his one will 'killer, that's retarded.

---

To simply be a Jedi Knight you need to have at least mastered two to three fighting styles, bro.

Technical mastery is the most overrated thing ever.

You failed to respond last debate in regards to Kreia's quotes, remember?


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Last edited by Jaggarath on Dec 7th, 2015 at 06:36 PM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:33 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Making this as short as possible because I have no interest in this discussion with you:
>Calls for a discussion
>Whines when engaged in one
>Gets stomped in the polls

laughing out loud
quote:
Last time I checked they stalemated, or 'killer won, so laughing out loud
Check again, Vader has his dead to rights twice over, the first time Marek escapes with a cheap shot, and the second time literally bluffs his way out.

Then Witwer comes along and says Vader let him win.
quote:
You missed the point. Quote me where it says Vader is superior since 2011 - 2012.
Wanna explain why I should first?
quote:
She's going to pose a threat / challenge despite Vader's strength and superior mastery.
For reasons you are assuming.
quote:
Or they dodge their opponents power attacks, kek
Lol, you missed the point, dodging doesn't win battles, it just expends energy and gives ground.
quote:
We've seen this explicitly happen before in the comics.
Tell me did any of those instances end with Vader losing?
quote:
Revan's Teleportation will suffice if he's in a jam.
Granted.
quote:
Like I said, I don't care for 'killer. Vader knew how to fight him. He won't with Revan.
Lol @ this blatant confirmation biased.
quote:
And no, I'm not going to ignore every Vader fight besides his one will 'killer, that's retarded.
Which is why I asked for dates, Vader lack of mobility became less and less of a problem as he grew accustomed to his suit, and grew more powerful. Unless its around 0 ABY or later its circumspect.
quote:
To simply be a Jedi Knight you need to have at least mastered two to three fighting styles, bro.
Well that's a start lol.
quote:
Technical mastery is the most overrated thing ever.
Inb4 reasons.
quote:
You failed to respond last debate in regards to Kreia's quotes, remember?
You mean Aurbere's point that Revan was a warrior? Hardly proves he mastered all seven styles.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:56 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
>Calls for a discussion
>Whines when engaged in one
>Gets stomped in the polls

I meant with ares, Freshest, actual Vader supporters on KMC, etc.

Why would I ****ing want to debate you when we're all having a Vader x Revan debate on SWTOR?

Actually, scratch that, why would I ****ing want to debate you in general, kek?

The polls fluctuate. KMC's in the pro-Vader mood with his new comics coming out ever month. Not much of a surprise.

The same thing happened with Quinlan Vos. It calmed down a couple months after it was over, TBH.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 07:00 PM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

I have Vader and Revan pretty even, tbh, so I stay away from most of these.

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 07:11 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

The gap I have between Revan and Vader is like a >= (i.e. extremely small).


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 07:19 PM
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Dark-Kenshin
Blocked

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: United States


 

It's a good fight (especially with Vader's recent feats), but my main man Revan takes this. Too fast and too smart for Vader. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 07:24 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I meant with ares, Freshest, actual Vader supporters on KMC, etc.

Why would I ****ing want to debate you when we're all having a Vader x Revan debate on SWTOR?

Actually, scratch that, why would I ****ing want to debate you in general, kek?
Lol if you didn't want to have a debate you shouldn't have responded in the first place. But whining about it midway is just obnoxious.
quote:
The polls fluctuate. KMC's in the pro-Vader mood with his new comics coming out ever month. Not much of a surprise.

The same thing happened with Quinlan Vos. It calmed down a couple months after it was over, TBH.
Well those comics aren't stopping any time soon. wink


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 07:33 PM
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