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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Darth Nyriss vs. Galen Marek


Darth Nyriss vs. Galen Marek
Started by: carthage

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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

Ah, thanks for the correction then.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 12:52 AM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

Tbh now that I think of it, while Galen did get more powerful as each fight went against the Jedi. Kota's the only one who actually had 0 help in fighting him and only lost due to fatigue.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 12:53 AM
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Selenial
I Choose Violence

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You misunderstand my point. I never said the Council was end, be all in power --- I'm only using them as the measuring tool, because Vader did.

Secondly, where is the evidence Kota improved to where it would render Vader opinion would be absolutely moot? He was a rather pathetic drunk in the first game, if anything, that would have actually stifled his abilities rather than prove.


There's no evidence that he improved since The Clone Wars other than the fact it's blatantly obvious, since Kota never appeared in that era. Vader's last accurate measuring stick of his abilities is TCW, so his opinion is outdated.

The thing is, you're comparing Vader's analysis to the Clone Wars council, as if it is an accurate "measuring tool" to determine Kota's current abilities. Hell, even then, Vader's pretty much right, since a Council Member who underwent the same 18 year growth period shows herself to be Kota's blatant superior...

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 12:56 AM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

I'm sure spending months of attacking Imperial targets, which is what Kota said to lure out Vader, had some growth on him too.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 12:58 AM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Selenial
Again, since when does that make feats invalid.

When did I say that it did?
quote:

Like I said, no one claims Vitiate can't dominate people with TP just because that was only brought in as a huge plot point. No one claims Sidious isn't a good duelist just because he was designed to appear unbeatable in the films.

Probably because everyone else in their settings can't do similar things, where as Marek struggles with grunts on a day to day basis.
quote:

Intention is irrelevant.

And yet it was the entire point of you were trying to make, because if the intention is to "unleash the Force" the only way to do this is to make everyone powerful, instead of just making everyone seem powerful with flash.

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 01:47 AM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

With what grunts did Marek struggle? I recall one Shadow Guard giving him a problem on Bespin, but that's about it.

Doesn't help that TFU's novels suck ass, so I only read it once.

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 01:51 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Out of interest where exactly does Vader say Kota is nothing compared to the Council? Because Zoltan is right in saying that Vader deliberately talks shit quite a lot in the novel.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 01:56 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

I recall Vader mentioning that Kota is an old man or some shit compared to Shaak Ti.

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 01:57 PM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

I may have to scan through that cancer that is TFU again, to verify - but I believe it was after Galen defeated him, and he scolded Marek for being cocky. By telling him Kota isn't anything special compared to a Council member bit.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:01 PM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

Yeah, he says something like "All you've done is take out an old man and an outcast. Now it's time for a true challenge, a member of the Jedi Council..." or some such.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:01 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Yeah he calls him a tired old man, but he also downplays Paratus in the same sentence, who he previously said was "far more powerful" than Marek and that he didn't expect him to survive. In the game and novel he's constantly downplaying Marek's abilities and achievements by twisting the truth, which is why I question his reliability as a source.

And for the record, the exact text:

"Master, I am ready now."

"You have defeated a tired old man and an outcast." Anger cracked like a whip in Darth Vader's vocoderized voice. "You will not be ready to face the Emperor until you have faced a true Jedi Master."

The apprentice squared his jaw, thinking of the pathetic imitations he had faced in the junk Temple. "Who?"

"Master Shaak Ti-one of the last of the Jedi Council." Then was a grudging respect in his Master's voice, mixed with naked contempt.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:05 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that Vader is trying to poke holes in his apprentice's confidence.

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:07 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Yeah, though again I'm puzzled by this double standard of treating some aspects of the novel as accurate, but others as not.

It's akin to claiming the New Testament is all made up because there's this part in the Bible where some guy says Jesus is a fraud. erm


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jun 22nd, 2016 at 02:15 PM

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:12 PM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

Hmm..I can concede on the Kota part then. As I said, it's been 4 years since I've read the book, so my memory on it isn't excatly 100%.

I still don't think TFU feats shoukd be taken at face-value, however.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2016 02:19 PM
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