SWTOR's Force-wielding Act III bosses engage in a free-for-all in the Dark Temple.
Darth Thanaton, Darth Baras, Vitiate's weakened Voice, and the First Son all battle for supremacy. Who's the strongest? Who's the weakest? Who fits in between and where?
I've been curious about this topic too recently. As a small tangent, does anyone think that the Sel Makor-possessed Voice that the Wrath beat is comparable to the weakened Voice that the Hero beat? If so, I would think that Baras would likely be the strongest one.
They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."
In sabers Baras is definitely above, but Baras is really unimpressive. There's really no reason to believe that he's comparable to Thanaton without the amps that Wrath neutralized. With them, I see Baras being roughly equal or superior to Thanaton. As of the final fight for both, however, the disparity between their Force prowess, while smaller than their saber skills, gives Thanaton the win imo. Baras really won't be able to get close enough to Thanaton to press sabers, plus I really doubt that Wrath II could beat Thanaton solidly, so there's that.
What I'm saying is, this thread is a battle of the final boss', and by the final fight Baras had none of his amps, so why would they be relevant here?
Do you really think he was affecting the DC's minds? He's a manipulator; he played his cards right. The Voice had disappeared, he was stronger than most of the DC while he had the amps, and he played on this to convince them he was the new Voice.
As is the goal of Soresu. I don't disagree that it must've been an impressive fight, but we both know it would've been primarily a saber-based fight, and the fact that Wrath II was able to resist Baras' Force attacks is both a good feat for Wrath and a negative one for Baras. Do I think Wrath could've resisted Thanaton? No. Do I think Wrath could beat Thanaton? Depends how strong Baras really was.
I'm not using them as they were in the finales, bar Vitiate for obvious reasons. Otherwise, the First Son would be mentally torn, which would make him inherently the weakest here - and perhaps by far. I'm obviously trying to get a fairer fight out of this.
I didn't say he was affecting their minds. But they obviously weren't questioning his status as the Emperor's Voice until the Wrath came along, and sources state that one of the Voice's most distinguishable attributes is the fact that it wields the power of the Emperor. So obviously, Baras gave the impression that he wielded the Emperor's power. Which would amount to being more powerful than all of the Dark Councillors, not just most.
It seems like Baras would've used quite a lot of Lightning, but never succeeded in overpowering the Wrath that way.
Why would the Wrath not be able to resist Thanaton?
In that case, I'd put it:
1. Weakiate Voice
2. First Son(?)
3. Baras (I would almost place Baras above First Son, but First Son would've been stronger assuming all the crap in the story that weakened him didn't happen)
4. Thanaton
Assuming we take it at face value, but again, the Voice was missing, he was more powerful than most of the Councilors with the amps, and he played his cards right. You also imply that they were really convinced. I observed them being almost completely unmoved by anything he was saying, but that's just me.
I agree that he would've used a lot of lightning at first, but was unable to breach Wrath's defenses, so resorted to saber combat, which obviously ended in Baras' defeat.
I hold Baras pretty solidly below Thanaton in Force, and my thinking is that if the fight was described as "fierce," it generally implies it was pretty even, and by that logic then Wrath'd probably falter under Thanaton's superior Force assault.
Nah, the Council weren't able to deny Baras' claim to the position until the Wrath disproved him.
At worst, you could argue that they weren't sure, which is still very impressive on Baras' part.
True, since we see him drawing his lightsaber at the end of the second cutscene, which is when his Lightning fails. Though by the end, he's back to using Lightning.
Why's Baras below Thanaton, much less solidly? As I said above, Thanaton was subscribing to the idea of Baras being the Voice (ergo, holding the Emperor's power) until the Wrath disproved that notion in combat. It would seem that Baras was more powerful.
Well, his being the first (and strongest) of the Emperor's Children would imply that he's probably comparable to Weakiate Voice, now that I think about it. It's more the feats of the other Children and Vitiate himself, then translating that to the First Son.
[QUOTE[Nah, the Council weren't able to deny Baras' claim to the position until the Wrath disproved him.[/B][/QUOTE]
One way of thinking about why they didn't want to deny his claim is because they know what happens to Councilors who don't follow the Emperor's will blindly, and if they reject his Voice, it'd result in their death. When two people claimed to've been handpicked by him to serve important places in his inner circle, they weren't sure which one was legit, so letting the stronger one win would make sure that they chose the one who was surely the actual chosen of the Emperor.
Again, or they were too scared of possibly invoking the wrath of the Emperor (not THE Wrath, you know what I mean).
All of his best feats (Force-wise) were from when he had his various amps, and without them Thanaton is significantly more impressive. The amount of power he lost must've been huge for Wrath II to be able to've actually won against him.
Sep 25th, 2016 01:31 AM
Thanks Scribble!
