I wasn't sure either to post it here, or episode 2 or 3... Thought still, I think it would be a fair fight... Count Dooku wooped both, Obi Wan's a$$ and Anakins A$$ in a fight, easily. He would've defeated them with one hand. But when Anakin turned to the dark side, he became much more powerful. And after the lava pit scene, when he got his armor, he became much more durable. Yet is he still stronger then Dooku?
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
NO WAY!!! Sure Vader's armor made him more durable, but his suit is as heavy as hell!! He doesn't have the physical shape and agility that Count Dooku has. Vader can barely raise his lightsaber above his head!
And you saw Vader fight Luke in ROTJ, an UNTRAINED BOY. Luke totally OWNED Vader, especially after Vader mentioned Leia. When Luke was slashing at Vader with all his might, Vader was completely overwhelmed, he had no idea what to do. He was all confused and kept missing parries. So based on that, Dooku would hand the OT Vader his giant robotic @$$.
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Slums of MA (aka Springfield)
Actually Luke WAS trained in the Empire Strikes Back and even in Return of the Jedi when he returned to Degobah to supposedly complete his training, Yoda told him he already had. Plus he proclaimed himself under the title Jedi quite often.
You need to also take into account that all Dooku did was lightning and throw stuff. Vader had a lot more power and his lightsaber was much cooler. The only reason Vader's parries got worse was because he was tired of fighting Luke for a heck of a lot longer than Dooku was taking Anakin and Obi Wan. However since Dooku was able to cowardly escape Yoda, but still surivive against him, and Obi Wan and Anakin at once, I give him props.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
by "untrained", i meant his training was incomplete.
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"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof." (Thanks TRiNiTYfemi for the sig!)
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
Ok the reason why Yoda said "No more training do you require" was that he knew Luke had the potential to defeat Vader. Plus, Yoda knew he was gonna die any second. He didn't necessarily mean Luke's training was complete.
Besides, how can you consider a few days of training to be complete training?
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Slums of MA (aka Springfield)
Don't you think he gained some experience from his endeavors at Jabba's palace and on the Sail Barge? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a mere Padawan would be able to coordinate and pull all of that off.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
I think Obi-Wan in TPM could have easily pulled it off but that's just my opinion
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
True, he probably did gain some experience in the escape from Jabba's sail barge, but one experience can't make someone complete their training. My point was that completing your training as a jedi requires years and years, and a few days plus that one experience just won't cut it.
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"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof." (Thanks TRiNiTYfemi for the sig!)
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Slums of MA (aka Springfield)
He began his training in Empire Strikes Back, where he trained with Yoda briefly, however he confronted Vader and stayed true to light side and himself in Cloud City. There he fought Vader several times, and pulled off some great demonstrations of force masterhood, like his force jump out of the carbonite chamber. He coordinated the rescue at Jabba's Palace, and used the force adequately on Endor.
He had plenty of experience, and Yoda told him that he had completed his training upon his return to Degobah in ROTJ.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
Well it really depends on how you look at it. If you compare Luke to the previous Jedi who have had years and years of training, then you can't really say Luke's training was complete. But if you are referring to training as Luke's numerous adventures (without a master teaching him) prior to his final confrontation with Vader, then i guess you can argue that Luke completed his training.
It's just like when Obi-Wan said Darth Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker "from a certain point of view"
You and I just looked at it from a different point of view and therefore our opinions are different.
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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Ok, let's get the facts straight here.
First of all, Vader is a lot less powerful than Anakin- fact from GL
Second, Luke when we see him fight in ALL the films is only a half-trained boy- fact from GL. He does not even finish his APPRENTICESHIP until the end of ROTJ.
Thirdly, all the prequel era combatants are much better than the oriignal trilogy ones- fact from GL.
Fourthly, therefore, Dooku would thrash Vader totally and utterly. This is not opinion; it is fact.
Fifthly... this belongs in the EU section. Moving.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Feb 8th, 2005 at 11:49 AM
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
THANK YOU Ushgarak, you took the words straight from my mouth.
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I think Vader
And at least in the EU Anakin being stronger than Vader is BS.
And aboot the Luke beating Vader I always thought Vader did that on purpose he wanted to loose, actually I belive Palpatine wanted Luke to be on the Dark Side and the easiest way would be to get Luke to kill his father.
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: The Unknown Regions
Dooku. He's much too fast and he has Force lightning. Vader can't use Force lightning, can he? And even if the didn't work, Dooku's so fast he would beat Vader effortlessly.
Feb 6th, 2005 09:38 PM
