Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
He legitimately got knocked down and overpowered, what he was faking was his, "I'm too weak" spiel, in order to turn Anakin. GL also stated that he was going to make Anakin already be a Sith when that scene happened, and make him have to help Sidious kill Mace, yet giving us another indication that Mace could and did best Sidious.
Sidious held back. There's a bunch of points supporting such a thing, but I only need to say two of them.
1. Around the middle of the duel, Sidious quite clearly had his saber up against Mace's chest, and could have just pushed his saber forward, but chose not to. He could have ended the duel there and then, so the fact that he didn't strongly suggests that he was holding back.
2. Against a stronger opponent (Yoda), his increase in skill was exponential. He was literally moving roughly 3 times faster, and was generally much more ferocious. Now usually a stronger opponent makes it harder for you to fight as skillfully as a weaker opponent would allow, yet the opposite happened in Sidious' case, which quite firmly indicates that he held back against Mace.
And? Why do people always bring that up as if it changes anything? We both watched the same movie you know, I quite clearly saw that Sidious was overpowered, however I believe that evidence points to Mace doing so only because Sidious was holding back, as he indeed was.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Mace had the advantages of shatterpoint and Vapaad that Yoda was without, so like you said before, you tend to look better against a lesser opponent, in this particular case that being Yoda.
Good lord, you do not know how to interpret a damn thing. There is NOTHING to suggest he was holding back against Mace. The only thing to suggest is that he underestimated Mace and got wtfpwned for it.
Exponential? Hardly, if you mean he either was disarmed or put his saber away and fled. Furthermore, Mace would do better against Sidious logically, considering he has Vaapad and shatterpoint, which would both work better against the darkside than whatever Yoda has. So once again, your argument fails.
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Nebaris, I tried to argue this a long time ago. I agree that it is highly coincidental and the fight scene itself is ridiculous (he is correct about the part where Mace is open to one of Sidious's attacks) and the "creepy-Palpatine-voiceover" in the Jedi Council room that persuades Anakin to go is simply suspicious...
However, George Lucas has stated that Sidious was overpowered in their duel. The only possible way that you could argue that is if you can prove that you can be "overpowered" while not fighting to the best of your ability; that steps into the semantics territory, and it's one I won't argue in.
But, from an in-universe perception, Mace Windu would - actually - be the more difficult opponent for Sidious. He is equipped with a mastery of Shatterpoint (which is aeon's above Yoda's) and Vaapad is the deadliest lightsaber form with an added bonus against dark siders. Yoda lacks both, and though he is "more powerful" than Mace (as is Sidious), he is likely not as effective against dark side wielding opponents.
Apr 7th, 2007 05:24 PM
