This is the second time you've made a stupid thread to fellate your character. Try a more subtle approach. Anyways, Luke assrapes Revan and Jacen assrapes Dooku. Luke could do this on his own.
According to the LotF series, Jacen is "second only" to Luke in terms of power in the Jedi hierarchy. He is superior to Kyp, Kyle, and everyone else. He nearly defeated a Force phantom of Luke conjured by Lumiya, that was said by both the omnisicient narrator and Jacen himself to be a "fair match for Luke".
Meanwhile, we know that Revan is less than RotS Yoda, due to the RotS novelization confirming that Yoda was "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" and Malak confirmed that Revan, as a Jedi, was stronger than Revan as a Sith. So, Yoda > Revan.
Luke would basically, ergo, wipe his ass with Revan. And so would Jacen.
He may have been a “fair match for Luke” but from facts, there is no reason to assume that Revan would not be a fair match for Luke either. The fact alone that he defeated Darth Malak empowered by the entire Rakatan race’s force energies twice in an amnesiatic state, you know, kind of shows some of his power.
Darth “I shatter temples and move moons” Bane feared all the abilities and powers Revan knew- some of the techniques he believed that ”no sith should ever know or use.”If Jacen were able to know defenses for even a fraction of these techniques, I would be surprised, given that the abandoned body of knowledge contained in Malachor was destroyed by the Exile. Other than that, Revan was described as casually calling upon storms to destroy his enemies, and even acknowledged by Traya – who with a flick of her wrist simultaneously pierced through the shields of three veteran Jedi masters – to be a stronger force user.
Stover’s opinion apparently contradicts with Lucas’ own interpretation of his characters. In the movies, Yoda – its painfully obvious – struggles to throw away a block of debris sent by Dooku to crush Kenobi and Anakin. He has to dodge senate pods instead of tossing them away. As such it is appropriate to regard it as hyperbole – a contradiction of Lucas’ views and the trends set forth by pre-existing EU.
I suspect Malak’s interpretation may not have been the right one. Even if it were, it contradicts nothing described of Yoda as per Lucas. It contradicts Stover, but in this case Stover contradicts a higher source of canon.
I’d like to see a bit more proof to back up your argument.
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Last edited by zephiel7 on Apr 12th, 2007 at 11:22 PM
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Still clinging to the Revan fanboyism ?
So Darth Bane did "fear" the powers and abilities Revan did know ? Kreia who taught Revan and (at least for Dark Side knowledge) did possess the very same sources (Malachor V) actually calls the abilities of the original ancient Sith frightening. Sidious learned most things that they had to offer and yet he was defeated by DE Luke.
Result of that game: DE Luke would already be good enough to take it up with Revan. NJO Luke would tool him.
Yeah. Yoda always struggles because he makes a few nice gestures. Nice how he throws one of the Senate pods back into Sidious face with apparent ease and without any "struggling" but I guess you have missed that somehow. Bringing the top of a mountain down and lifting the remains of an entire temple up as well as levitating Luke's X-Wing around with apparent ease (all in sources either done or approved by Lucas directly) of course doesn't mean anything because your interpretation of something that is shown in AotC.
Aside of the fact that Lucas obviously approved the RotS novel and, according to Stover, went through it line by line even going so far to change single words within the text. Ups ?
Stover's words are directly approved by Lucas...word by word. And there is no higher source of canon than Lucas personally. Or to make it more clear. If Lucas suddenly decides that something shown in RotS didn't happen like that - this counts, not the film. At least it counts more than your personal interpretation of a five second sequence in one of his movies. There you go.
And I'd like to see Revan slaughtering through armies of nigh force immune creatures equipped with lightsaber resistant armor and weapons. Then he just has to be able to create loops inside the force to hide planets away, make himself invisible and unsenseable to other force user or defeat the likes of DE Sidious and so on and so forth in personal confrontation. Somebody who has to go through an "epic lightsaber duel" with somebody who's skill is on one level with Dooku (roughly) clearly isn't a match for NJO Luke Skywalker.
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"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
I would respond, Zephiel, but it would be identical to Nai's own. Thus, it would be redundant and a complete waste of time. I will, however, add that LightSnake has proven that the contents of the RotS novelization was personally overseen by Lucas himself, according to an interview with Stover, and - as Nai so eloquently pointed out - Lucas's interpretation of what is canon and what isn't trumps not only your opinion, but the movies themselves.
The novelization confirms that Yoda was the strongest Jedi ever. Actually, he was the strongest "foe had ever known" which one could interpret to encompass anyone who had ever battled evil, or - more specifically - the Dark Side. This is established canon, and something you must unfortunately come to grips with.
Escape, I would have to disagree with you concerning Jacen tooling Revan. Granted, he fought a force phantom of luke, but you and I both know Luke was not giving his best. Furthermore, he is described as second to Luke in the CURRENT Jedi hierarchy. His knowledge, in terms of variety, trumps anybody in the SW universe but his overall knowledge isn't comparable to the likes of Sidious, Yoda, and Revan. So again, I don't see how Jacen would be tooling Revan anywhere.
What the hell are you talking about? Notice how I said “Luke is stronger than Revan, and Jacen is stronger than Dooku.” I would suggest that you reread my argument. Go to to the top of the thread, I was arguing for Revan against Jacen, not against Luke. I never made an argument stating that Revan could defeat NJO Luke.
Yes, I agree that Revan would be defeated, but there is no evidence that confirms that it will be a walk in the park. Considering all the evidence presented above, Luke would be experience some difficulty.
EDIT: Also, I have heard theories that Luke was backed by the battle meditation of his sister in DE. Do you have proof that goes contrary to this belief?
A few nice gestures…I remain skeptical. Perhaps a second look at the scene is in order. He is basically gritting his teeth and grimacing – “call me blonde!” but that usually means he is having trouble. I wouldn’t be closing by eyes and straining otherwise.
Apparent ease? That’s exactly why he struggles to catch a pod that was hurtling down towards him and decided to dodge the majority of them? He was having trouble; any idiot with either of their eyes gouged out could tell you that.
And how do these feats reconcile the fact that Revan matched the force energies of a powerful dark lord and an entire race( as issued by DSB supplementary material) of force sensitive beings – even in spite of being in a state of amnesia? Not to mention he was able to casually launch storms of force energies, described as coming downwards from the sky itself. I reiterate that Bane himself, able to nudge a moon the size of earth and able to collapse temples despite being in a wounded state regarded him as possessing abilities that no Sith Lord should ever use.
List some of these sources please. I wouldn’t be surprised either, since this wasn’t even a battle situation and the speed in which he lifted it was ridiculously slow. To say otherwise is confirmation bias, however you look at it.
My interpretation, is called common sense. There are such things as “reasonable observations” and "unreasonable observations", y’know. When something is standing their, gritting their teeth, closing their eyes and dropping their weapon in order to catch something, it’s obvious that they are using a lot of concentration and effort.
You don’t know which parts Lucas approved of, and which parts he didn't. Obviously not all the parts were approved, since Kit Fisto’s death was different in the novel, as with the Yoda/Sidious scene, Anakin/Ben scene, and some parts of the Dooku battle. You aren’t really an authority to state which parts Lucas agreed with or disagreed with.
It wasn’t just a five second scene in the movie. We see numerous records of Yoda having difficulty, as per observations independent of bias. Movie scenes are, by their very nature, are more canon than the novelization. He was finding it difficult to redirect pods! How is he going to last against a blast of energy the size of a storm?
As I never stated that Revan would beat Luke - which you sadly missed – I remain puzzled as to the reason you decided to pile up all this bullshit on me.
You must have missed the part supported by various narratives and evidence from DSB supplementary material that this Sith lord was empowered by the fore energies of an entire race, that Revan was still amensiatic, and that he also had to defeat Malak who recovered himself twice in order to finally be done with him.
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Last edited by zephiel7 on Apr 13th, 2007 at 01:08 AM
Apr 12th, 2007 07:25 PM
