It's irrelevant because they are owned by George Lucas and he made them the way he wants, and he has the rights to enhance them in any way he wants. This is a argument that has gone for 15 years now; fans think they OWN the films, but they actually don't.
Notice I use the word 'enhance' rather than 'change' - it's because for all the yelling over the SE, the story is completely intact from how it was first presented. Nothing is changed whether Han or Greedo shot first, or whether Mos Eisley is bigger with more vehicles, whether the Sarlacc has a beak or not, and on & on & on - the characters & story still proceed the way they did in 1977-83. Take all the enhancements away and the visual difference between the two trilogies becomes more stark, when Lucas wants them to feel as uniform as possible. That's why the insertion of Ian McDiarmid in hologram form in TESB adds to continuity.
I've been a fan since I was watching it in theatres as a boy in 1977, and though I could quibble over a few enhancements here & there (the new musical number in Jabba's palace isn't better, the altered editing rhythm of the last scene in ROTJ) overall it works for me. I'm a first generation fan who sits willingly with the second generation quite well. The vocal minority who view every second of the OT as being cast in stone, it's like they've trying to stop the flow of a river by stringing ropes through it. Forget it; it all moves on.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Well sure but by that line of thinking the Original Star Wars was completely fine as a one off movie. It was a happy ending with celebrations and medals with the Villains and even the Empire seemingly defeated.
But clearly there was unresolved plots, and many unanswered questions and potential for a much more in depth story. Which is still true when coming to the end of ROTJ after watching all 6 movies now.
Imagine if Lucas made ESB and ROTJ just based on what the fans wanted.
Fans should really have more respect for the man who created their fandom.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:36 PM
you are correct in that it was a complete story arc, in and of itself. however there was plenty of room for the story to expand. the empire was obviously not defeated as vader and the emporer lived and essentially a fraction of the empire's force was destroyed. i emphasise 'expand' because that's the key ingredient in a successful series. not just a to ''continue'' and answer questions that really dont amount to anything besides superficial character circumstances in their future.
put simply, if your questions could have simply been answered in an ending crawl after RotJ, its hardly worth even one more movie.
"han went on to be a famous gynecologist, and chewbacca became the galaxy's most renowned chorus line dancer", etc
the only unanswered question i can think of was the one lucas threw on us with the PT. "wait...leia will likely be a jedi as per yoda's request, but now does that mean she has to dump han?"
what else is there to know? palpatine's prescience along with the jedi being extinct was the key to the empire's unchecked power. this is made clear when force-n00b luke managed to unravel the whole thing starting with deathstar1 exploding. ep6 leaves us comfortable in the knowledge that while luke and the gang will have to lay low and train jedi and army, they will win. the devil is dead.
look you dont have to argue the need for a sequel since you are getting one. however you seem to be wishing for tablescraps from RotJ with some generic EU antagonists thown in. be careful what you wish for since that can turn out incredibly tedious and boring and make us all reminisce over the good ol' days of AotC.
Last edited by focus4chumps on Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:49 PM
Wasn't Leia being the savior of the Light Side and bringer of balance more of a possible safety-net if Luke happened to follow in his father's footsteps and go Dark?
that was up in the air at the end of esb, and as ush said, there was supposed to be another person as his sister and 3 more films before RotJ. GL was always very fickle with his plans for the saga.
Depends how you look at it. Grand Moff Tarkin (who was shown as the guy who gives Vader orders) was killed. Vader's fate was left ambiguous but he may also have been defeated. Who was the Emporer in the Original SW? Just a name. We had no idea that he was a Force wielder and that the whole Empire was created and dependent on him!
And technically only a fraction of the Empire's force was destroyed at the end of ROTJ as well.
After watching all 6 episodes I'm really more concerned about Luke's destiny and that of the Jedi Order. Because that really isn't clear to me at the end of ROTJ and it doesn't help that Lucas has pretty much always rejected the Eu's take on those events.
Not really. The whole Empire is still there. It's only their leader who died. Palpatine clearly planted a lot of evil around the Galaxy to form the Empire. So I really don't see how the end of ROTJ explains what happens. To all those Grand Moff's in charge of all those armies, to the Jedi Order.. What happens? We really can only guess.
But yeah also your point. Because it was kind of a big issue that Leia was to be trained, and also a big part of the plot that Leia loves Han. In fact the last line of the movie was "He's my brother" right before they kiss! So what happens? Again we guess!
Oh no I'm not totally convinced I want sequels at all. I was perfectly happy with 6 movies. I have a bad feeling Disney might cheapen the SW franchise by making continuous movies every 2 years. But I'm hoping for the best.
All I'm saying is after watching all 6 movies I'm not happy with the ending ROTJ provided. But hey a CW type animated series of that time period would have made me happy!
Last edited by Darth Thor on Nov 1st, 2012 at 11:43 PM
Well, if you are not happy with the ending then that is fair enough. I think the stylistic point that the Empire is finished has been made, though- from the plot logic that it needed either the Death Star oir the Senate to survive and now has neither, to the symbolic imagery of the Emperor's statue on Coruscant being toppled and all the joyous galactic scenes. Having been made in these ways, it does not have to be spelt out literally.
Which is not to say it can't be used in a new story, just that it's not a reason to consider the existing story unfinished.
(And if it is used in the new films, it should again be part of the backdrop, not the central plot)
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Nov 2nd, 2012 at 12:00 AM
So in cases where George Lucas says things like "...began to see it as a tale that could take at least nine films to tell—three trilogies..."
We disregard that and go with what the latest thing he said? I'm a bit rusty when it comes to how we treat GL contradictions on KMC. So was the last we heard about it 2008? So that's what we go with?
Its been a long time since I've seen these forums get this much action. I remember when I would post something, and there would be no action in here for days.
I've been thinking a lot about this new trilogy a lot since its announcement. I also started watching 1-6 again, I was actually planning on it anyway before this announcement came. I've been on a fantasy / sci fi movie franchise kick lately. I recently watched 2001 & 2010, predator & alien films, Star trek films, currently Star wars. After that I think I'll watch LOTR, back to the future trilogy, Matrix trilogy, Terminator 1-4, Indiana jones 1-4, Bill & ted 1&2, Ghostbusters 1 & 2, Robocop trilogy, Jurassic park trilogy etc.....
Any way I am going to make some wild ass predictions. it will be fun to see how wrong I am.
1. The main protagonist will be a female
2. We'll see the return of the double bladed light saber
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
That other stuff didn't come until the 90s when he said that XI "ended the story". Again, that is just classic Lucas contradiction stuff but it is not at though the notion was pulled out of thin air. Once upon a time, there was room in Lucas' soul for a sequel trilogy.
And the recent discussions with Mark Hamill do not make it seem like there wasn't room for a sequel. It seems like something happened in 2012 that changed George's mind and all that stuff he's been saying since the 90s was just negative talk-back and pessimism. Why else the change in attitude all of a sudden? He was gung-ho about it in the 70s and early 80s..but 90s come around and up through 2012, he wasn't wanting to do it and saying there was no room for a sequel anymore. But, now, he's talking to Mark and wanting to get the gang back together, possibly? Too much contradiction for me to just swallow that the saga actually did end with VI. VII, VIII, and IX will be sequels of sorts. Too early to tell. But how much of a sequel in name only is what we need to wait on.
I'll hold my conclusion off on this discussion until 2015 when we can see if the story actually does continue or if it is just an ancillary story.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Nov 2nd, 2012 at 03:11 AM
Well I vowed several months ago that I was done with this place because no one could find anything positive to talk about anymore.
But, now that we have a new trilogy coming, that may be exactly the thing to get these forums off life support. This has the potential to be fun again, just like the good old days.
I will make one small prediction though. Lucas will have nothing to do with the writing or directing, yet he'll still get blamed for all of Episode 7's shortcomings. I can see the writing on the walls now. Similar situation to INDY 4. "Oh, but Lucas came up with the story." And I'm so over that one, because even Speilberg himself admitted, "I nuked the fridge, not George."
Anyway, I look forward to the new trilogy. Though I keep hearing all over the internet everyone screaming for Joss Whedon, and I have to say, I must be the only one to have found The Avengers a bit overrated. I mean I enjoyed it, but really, 7 out of 10. Nothing that blows me away like Spider-Man 2 still does.
I know everyone will laugh at this, but I would love for James Cameron to direct. He can balance special effects and story out pretty well. But I'm sure he'll be busy with Avatar 2 and 3...so I'll dream on.
Yeah, I figured people would find my interest in Cameron directing a bit odd, but I love everything he's ever touched for the most part, and he's one that can handle special effects pretty well, while still having a really strong story.
I just keep hearing the obvious choices, like Nolan, J.J Abrams or Whedon, and I honestly disagree with everyone of them. They are all brilliant directors, and I probably would have loved to have Abrams on board if he hadn't already done Star Trek. I don't want those two universes to feel the same. I don't think Abrams would do that anyway, but it's better to be safe and distance themselves from that possibility.
Cameron, Brad Bird, or Guillermo del Toro would be some of my choices.
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