Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
It's only half as bad.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
In my opinion, most of them are worse.
People who vote for Trump do so out of frustration with the norm and a hatred of the Inteligencia who talk about change but don't (in the eyes of the voter) actually accomplish anything. These people don't know better, they have every right to be frustrated, even if their solution is misplaced.
I find it hard to blame the people like that, just like I struggle to hate anyone who voted Brexit because of immigration. To quote one of my favourite Movie villains, "I know why they did it. I know they were afraid, who wouldn't be." I can however hate with a fury the people who lied to them and goaded them into an impassioned and reckless decision. Just like I cannot hate a Trump supporter simply for supporting him, but I hate Trump and everything he stands for.
On the flip side, someone who votes for Jill Stein because they're mad Bernie didn't win the primary is doing so knowing full well what a catastrophe a Trump presidency would be. They're doing it knowing that voting for Jill Stein won't abolish the two party system or create a more progressive vision for America. They are throwing away the best chance your country has of a progressive agenda through childish spite at not winning the nomination for Sanders.
For them it's their way or the highway, and that ideology disgusts me even more than those who vote for Trump out of a distrust for Clinton, or because they blame immigrants for their economic hardships.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
But...Clinton supporters are voting for her because of their distrust for Trump, so it goes both ways does it not? Also, everyone is screaming what a catastrophe Trump would be, while the right is screaming what a catastrophe the left would be, do you people actually believe either scenario? Seriously, a catastrophe? Chances are, none of you are going to be affected by either one's policy. In the case of Trump, this isn't Nazi Germany and he isn't Hitler. We have a system of checks and balances that prevent anything like a one man(or woman) wrecking crew from happening. I understand the Bernie supporters because they just found out the Democratic party is bigoted, corrupt and hypocritical (everything that was said about the Republican party, yet they came together under one banner because the people had spoken), so why wouldn't they vote for a 3rd party just to spite Hilary? They feel a Trump presidency would be no worse than a Hilary presidency and they're probably right. I think most people are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Let the debates settle once and for all who's the better candidate. That's how it usually works, everything else is fluff.
It's not really just childish spite when the DNC was trying to sabotage Bernie's campaign while pretending to be neutral. You have to understand where they're coming from and what their thought-process is. It's like, #1. the DNC was against them from the beginning, #2. they think Hillary is full of shit when it comes to money in politics, #3. Hillary chooses a running mate who's openly praised the TPP, which they staunchly oppose, and is hardly a beacon of progressive values, #4. Jill Stein is basically a female Bernie Sanders, and some just legitimately want to vote their conscious instead of the lesser evil, #5. they want change in Washington just as bad as those disillusioned Trump supporters, so inadvertently electing Trump, for some, isn't that bad. Many view Hillary as a liar, corrupt, and bought, so I don't feel as though the Bernie-turn-Stein supporters are just doing it out of spite. They hate their options so they'll fight for the candidate that best fits their views in Jill Stein.
Me, personally, I just want Johnson and Stein in the debates.
There are real issues on the table, from minority rights to trade policy, that I don't think can be whitewashed by saying either party will be equally awful. Nebraska gets like 15% of its GDP from trade with Mexico; starting a trade war with them would be devastating. Ten percent of employed people are hispanic or latino. Attacking their ability to support their families (thru Trump's plan to pay for the wall) will hurt them. Deporting the unreported quantity of people that work off-the-books will hurt the state as well.
It's hard to overstate how much damage could come from the few plans Trump has discussed so far. What do you think he's holding closer to his vest?
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
No, it's not the same. People who vote for Clinton over Trump are saying "I do not want Trump in the White House. I will vote for Clinton to ensure he doesn't make it".
People who vote for Stein because they hate Clinton are doing it because "I don't care that Trump is worse. I dislike Hillary and the fact she won the nomination. I'm throwing away my vote in protest".
Don't get me wrong, I think Jill Stein is a fantastic politician who stands for progressive values. She will not, however, win the presidency. Every vote that is cast for her out of protest at Hillary's victory is a vote that could be ensuring Donald Trump doesn't make it into the president's office.
Like I said though, people who legitimately don't agree with Hillary on any issue have every right to vote another way. That's why I said it's only in certain cases that it's worse than voting for Trump. I just find the individuals who vote Stein because they don't want TPP or another single issue and the majority of the Democratic electorate voted for someone who does, knowing full well how bad a Trump presidency would be, self centered.
If they don't think Trump would be bad in the Oval Office, and on a policy basis don't see a difference between Trump and Clinton, and chose to vote a third party, more power to them. But in my honest opinion, that's not what the majority of Stein voters will be voting on.
It's nothing more than a protest vote in one of the most integral elections the US has faced in years.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Trade War. Be specific. There seems to be a war on TPP and free trade coming from both sides now which is an astonishing turn of events. I still don't know which side Hilary is playing or if she's hedging her bets here.
I think you're against TPP here which aligns closer with Trump than Hilary at least on that aspect. I'm still not sure how I feel about it after reading all the pros and cons. I've always been for globalization but against fiat money, for instance. I'm still for globalization, but I've hated outsourcing more and more since the jobs began leaving a decade ago. At the same time, we don't really understand price fluctuations we'll be experiencing if we reduce outsourcing and increase tariffs on foreign products.
And people who are voting Trump are saying "I do not want Hilary in the White House". That makes it the same. I certainly am not voting for Trump because of his beautiful face or narcissism (although again, with that much money, who wouldn't be)?
That's speculative at best, completely false at worse. I'd argue people voting for Stein are doing it because they hate Hilary AND they feel she's a much worse choice than Trump. Given the wikileaks fiasco, they're not wrong in thinking that.
I don't think it's that integral, it just feels that way. I'm not sure where Trump really stands but from what he's said, he a little left of current Republican policies so center left, while Clinton will most likely not invoke any of Sanders' policies and she's certainly right of him and Stein, so center left. So honestly, not terribly different and I think the fear is inflated.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Out of curiosity, which email shows a concerted effort throughout the entirety of the DNC to undermine Sanders? From what I understand, it was an effort by select politicians in the DNC who happened to favor Clinton. While yes, it's shameful they pretended to be neutral, I don't get the whole fuss over a party taking sides in their elections. The British do it brazenly, the conservative elite worked tooth and nail to make sure David Cameron, not his opponents, won the party election. The same can be said for Theresa May vs Andrea Leadsom, of course politicians take sides.
Trying to turn people against Bernie for being an atheist is deplorable, yes. As is maintaining a public stance of neutrality. But I don't see the DNC stuff as a reason to vote Stein any more than Bernie calling Clinton "unqualified" to be president a reason to not vote for him. Or select Sanders backers conducting a trial by media on her, on his account.
That's just how politics works :/
The TPP thing is fair enough, but IMO not reason to vote Stein because a vote for Stein won't stop TPP since she'll never win.
Whether you think Clinton full of shit about money in politics, even if it's not what she believes, it's in the party platform now. She also has no reason to lie about it, since if she wins the presidency it'll never affect one of her campaigns again...
As for the other stuff, I feel like I've addressed it already, by saying I'm obviously not talking about everyone who's voting Stein.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
I obviously misunderstood what you were talking about before, can you please clarify?
It's neither, given so many people vote for so many different reasons. I'm merely explaining the view point that angers me, it doesn't mean every Stein voter has the same motives.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
It's the absolute hypocrisy of bitching about Republican bigotry and corruption, while pulling this stunt. On the other side, the Republican powers hate Trump, yet they acknowledge the will of the people.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Throwing it back, since the Republican Party were so against Donald Trump, and he still won in a landslide... Why is it relevant that the Democratic Party didn't agree with Bernie and he lost by three million votes?
The hypocrisy of other politicians shouldn't really change which presidential candidate you're voting for, should it?
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
That's not throwing it back, that's ignoring the entirety of my post. Also I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's a huge difference betwee not agreeing with Bernie, and actively sabotaging his campaign and/or setting the playing field in Hilary's favor, all the while always complaining about the bigotry and corruption of Republicans.
The Republicans did what they were supposed to do. The people voted for Trump, they begrudgingly came together around him. Sure there was a small #NeverTrump movement but nothing even close to the level of Democrat corruption. I can deal with different ideologies, it's the blatant hypocrisy that grinds my gears.
Personally I find it vastly more hypocritical that Republicans who were so against Trump months ago chose to eat the own words and heap praise on him when he won the nomination. That isn't acknowledging the will of the people, its being a bunch of spineless sycophants. It's naked two-facedness.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
I agree, the hypocrisy is staggering, I've said that already and it's the part I have major problems with.
Again, the Republicans sabotaged Trump's campaign too. The people overcame it. The DNC sabotaged Bernies, he lost quite dramatically. Like I said though, I understand why political parties do that, and it's hardly a bigger advantage than the caucus system was for Bernie, or every other advantage/disadvantage the two candidates had...
The hypocrisy is the bad part.
But again, I ask, why the hypocrisy of other politicians mean you should be voting Trump/Stein over Clinton. She wasn't the hypocrite (in this case)...
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
What you just said makes zero sense. "Hey we don't like this candidate so lets tell the voters to **** off, thereby making the voting process meaningless"
How? When?
That's not democracy on any level. You're basically insulting the voters who aren't in line with your "favorite" candidate. There has to be a level of impartiality within the confines of each party. The Democrats burned that to a crisp and revealed themselves to be hypocrites. It's not surprising but it's damning.
I'm voting for Trump because I think Hilary (while qualified in the technical sense), is a god awful candidate. The pandering, the lying, the the various mistakes she has made, it's too much. I watched the ENTIRE DNC and was actually inspired by some of the speeches that made this look like an old RNC convention..Until hilary came up on stage and killed it. The entire message was not consistent with Hilary or her image and approval ratings. Now I say this before they debate. If Trump gets hammered, there's absolutely no way I'm voting for him. If he at least debates her to a standstill, it's over for her.
Jul 29th, 2016 07:42 PM
