Man, lotta information in this thread, and the catfight in the middle totally distracted me from my train of thought.....
1. tarkin doesn't think obi wan was killed in ep III, he says "he must be dead BY NOW"....anakin is his source of information, so therefore anakin doesn't believe obi wan is dead (after the duel)
2. i don't think anakin and obi wan meet again after the duel until ep IV
3. i think anakin must be named vader before the duel, and reveals this to obi wan during the duel, as others have said. I've read things that hint at this i think (maybe pablo, can't remember) but i'd never really sat down and put all the pieces together, so this thread has been quite enlightening for me on that front. (it would be a lot easier for anakin to slaughter jedi children if he was divorced from his previous personality somewhat by then)
4. on cavola's points to do with anakin being hardly done by: there's enough in the films to make us empathise with why anakin acts the way he does, we all have elements like this to our personalities at times. But he is clearly a pain in the ass. he has a tantrum and destroys an entire village, he tells obi wan to get f*****d at every oportunity, and constantly whinges that he doesn't get enough respect, even though the rules of the entire jedi order have been bent to allow him in (he doesn't seem real grateful to be freed either, considering that's against qui gon's job description - it's like he expects special treatment). imagine someone you know who is quite talented, but who tells you so at every oportunity. Imagine talking to your boss or teacher the same way anakin talks to obi wan. If you disagree with someone in authority there are subtle ways to discuss matters, anakin has no diplomacy or social grace.
I could say more but this post is getting too long, and i'm off topic anyway. I am looking forward to rewatching ep I, and seeing that look anakin gives mace in the jedi council scene. Now that we know what's to come.
well, there's enough there that we can identify with in ourselves, so that we can understand his motivation. but yeah, he's seriously cocky as all hell. and has a real problem with authority. (check when he ignores qui gon and steals the fighter at the end of ep I - there's loads of examples)
he's supposed to be so helpful and nice in ep I, but jake lloyd's bad acting makes me think he's playing everyone for suckers even there.
other than that point out one time he doesn't act like an ass?
i've just remembered the scene where obi wan gives him props in the helicopter, and he looks proud. I'd never really thought about it before, nice scene.
I wouldn't call your response "reasonable". It's obvious you're nothing but a lice-infested troll.
A rock-troll, at that. I guess I'd better not be too hard on you, though, because I don't want to make you go crying to your mommy.
I don't think there was any call for the insults you have flung. I'm pretty positive JP, or Spadesmama, or respectable mother, or whatever you want to call her, has more class in her little finger than you have in your 2 inch penis.
Cornponious! I warned Gangularis about his manners in addressing people. I see now difference in your behaviour here as well. A warning for you too! Shape up, dude!
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all" - Thumper
as insulting as Gangularis was, i doubt we can predict how well or not well he is endowed, so moving right along...
the line that gets me is this:
"he's more machine now than man...twisted and evil"
this tells me that the mech vader is even more evil that the one obiwan duels with on mustafar. since that version of vader was more man than machine (his arm) so i must assume that between the time anakin falls in the lava and the credits rolling at the end of the film, vader will prove himself to be truely evil...as if attacking padme and trying to cut down his old master and fiend werent enough...
another line that gets me:
"Sisssssster! so...we have a twin sisssster...
obiwan was wise to hide her from me...now his failure is complete"
obiwan was wise to hide HER...what about luke?
shouldn't he have said "...obiwan was wise to hide
you two from me" so, by saying that doesn't vader imply that obiwan did NOT hide luke from him? perhaps vader knew about luke during and before
epIV...
here's another line that gets me...
aunt beru: ...he has to much of his father in him
uncle owen: thats what i'm afraid of
Vader knew about Luke sometime between ANH and Empire... but he only found out about Leia from Luke's thoughts. Either of the twins was a key to defeating Anakin and the Emperor. It seems like OB1 and Yoda would try the twins out one at a time. And male chauvinist pigs as they were, they picked Luke first...
And I think Vader got pretty pissed from OB1's "betrayal" and for loosing most of his magnificent bod, that that made him even more evil.
I believe that OWK will take young Luke to Owen and Beru to be raised. It only stands to reason that he will tell Owen WHY Luke is to be raised by them.
corn, as far as the skywalker name, i wonder the same thing myself.
that is a fact i left out of my last post by accident. yes, why did leah have the name organa, and luke DIDN'T have the name Lars? perhaps there was no need to hide his identity from vader, since it was already known?
and queeq, as far as lucas making everything up as he goes along, you are correct. but wasnt that the case since he finished ANH?
now its not a case of just making up new things, but tying the old things together.
he must make sense out of the nonesence, as he did in ROTJ with the whole POV dialogue. that is why i think these lines which point out inconsistancy are VERY important clues on how ep3 will roll out into ep4. im sure as much as they ring in our heads, they must echo loudly in GL's head. since he doesnt seem to be erasing these lines, i would hope that he will use ep3 to solidify them, one way or another.
Indeed. Making things up as you go is fine if you're moving forward. Now he's moving backward and finds himself limited or even hindered by what he made up before. Still, he is making a lot of things up as he goes. I just hope he doesn't go overboard with linking evything up and explaining everything. I personally feel he came a little too close to the edge IMHO by explaining Boba Fett's background. I personally liked him better as the ruthless-but-very-mysterious bounty hunter, whom no one knows anything about. Sergio Leone made three westersn with guys like that, especially Eastwood's character. I didn't NEED any background inof to like him. Heck that guy didn't even have a name in THREE consecutive films.
It feels sometimes like Lucas is finding out now he wants to tell a somehwat different story than what he made almost 30 years ago.
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Aug 16th, 2004 04:09 PM
