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Fire
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: On vacation |
there aint any and the first one to do it again will get his ass slapped by me, in and out game  
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Be smart, be cool, be sexy = be LIBERAL!
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Dec 28th, 2003 01:43 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Hi guys, how is it going? Everyone seems to have slipped into the new system ok, which is good... so I thought I would take this opportunity to talk about possible future changes!
1. The Mind stat
There is actually a third base stat I can introduce- Mind, and its secondaries Intelligence, Perception, Willpower and Charisma.
I have not included it before because it is nowhere near as directly relevant as Body and Reflexes. Here are some facets that may be unlocked if I put it in:
a. If I ever introduce the full skill system- where everyone has levels in skills like drive and intrusion, as well as just martial arts and guns- a lot of skills are dependant on the Mind stat
b. Veterans have a higher Mind than others as one of their advantages
c. All the Focus powers that are 'Veteran only' will stop being Veteran only and become what they should be-powers that dpened on your Mind stat
Mind cannot be increased in the download system
Opinions?
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2. More flexible character creation
Right now a Hacker starts with Body 8, Reflexes 8, and puts two secondaries to ten. How this should actually work is that he starts on Body 6, Reflexes 6... and gets to allocate four points between them. So he could go Body 9 Reflexes 7. Or even Reflexes 10 and keep Body at six.
He THEN gets to add +2 to two secondaries.
Other templates would be similarly flexible. Could people handle that?
Worth noting that if Mind goes in, you can spend on that as well. Hackers and Naturals start with Mind 6, Vets start at 7.
Thoughts?
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3. The Fu stat
Heh... there is actually a FOURTH base stat! It is called Fu. It has two secondaries, Focus and Fortune. Focus gives you a focus base before you buy focus pool in the Download grid. Fortune gives you Fortune points (See the Combat Path introduction) to use each assignment.
Fu starts at zero, it is limited to two except for Naturals, and Naturals get +4 to the Focus Secondary (which replaces their +4 focus pool they have right now, though for exactly the same effect).
Fu also cannot be increased in the download system, only your focus pool.
What do people think of that?
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4. Dumping the Path system
I would do this right now, I think it is a very good idea to do this right now... BUT. It would just be such an admin mess, and so much more would have to be written down.
The Paths would still exist if I did this. But you would not buy them in levels. Instead, you would just buy a certain amount of powers- 20, 30, 40 etc. and just pick them off what is available. The Paths work in that you need some powers before you can get other ones- if you have played Diablo II you will know what I mean. They are called Path Trees.
This would allow far more customisation and would let me balance the Download system better. But the trouble is you you have to choose- and then write down- every power you want!
Gun Tricks would come in levels between 1 and 4.
Thoughts?
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Meanwhile, here are some things that may well be or not be coming, but not yet.
1. New Paths
New Paths are always in development, Some I can tell you about, some I cannot. As most basic areas are already covered, these will be less direct but more clever Paths, for those of you who have sussed the system.
There may also be opposed Paths. One such Path is the Path of the Silver Prince- a swordfighting Path based on the latest Prince of Persia game- as in highly athletic, jumping around and behind people, instead of Jade Emperor's Samurai style.
Jade Emperor and Silver Prince would be 'Opposed'- if Paths are opposed, you pay heavy penalties for trying to get both. So basically, a swordsman would chose between Jade Emperor or Silver Prince. The same principle may come for other Paths. This allows us to add more variety between characters without simply making some people super powerful.
2. Hotzone Mark II
The Hotzone has never worked as planned- on-line or off-line! A new off-line system is in development that might come on over here. With this system, your entire loadout would be Cold Zone. Your Hot Zone would be a small EXTRA area, which starts empty and into which you can download skills (only) during play. But these skills would be in your short term memory only and would fade very fast.
3. The complete abandonment of the Download system.
Now, I bet that turned a few heads... but basically this system has been a pain from day one, as those of you who have to keep re-doing it will know.
It does actually work, it is not rubbish. But it is not working as well as was envisaged. Of course, off-line it is very different to on-line. Off-line it is all about trying to fit shapes into a grid. Here it is just about spending points, so it is really only a more stylish character creation system. But in both cases we have the same problem- it is rampantly abusable. Fire and, I think, Rade have already spotted how very powerful a Hacker can become if he is rather anal about the system (in role-playing this is called 'Twinking'). The Download System is very Twinkable.
The main issue is combat skill- the weakest part of this whole RP system. This system is very good, but the difference one point in skill makes is, as I am sure many of you have noticed, very large. Too large really. An extra point in MA is effectively worth an extra point in Strength and Toughness as well because you would do one more damage on each hit and take one less damage on each hit. Why increase Strength or Toughness when you can increase Agility, get a higher MA and get the benefits of all three?
Solutions are in place- the limits for high skills and even me just forcing people to take 20 points worth of Paths or tricks (else you guys could SO easily have 15/15 Guns and MA, or even 16 MA or Guns, which is just too damn dangerous) but all in all, the system is simply flawed.
In off-line, my brother is considering dumping the Download and replacing it with something else. I may follow suit here. The difference would be smaller here because, as I say, you are just spending points, which is what character creation is anyway. But I thought you should be ware that at some future point, things may radically change. I shall let you know how this goes.
Thanks for reading all that. Thoughts and feelings?
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 3rd, 2004 at 07:06 PM
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Jan 3rd, 2004 06:29 PM |
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Tptmanno1
Life Ponder-er
Gender: Male
Location: Dreaming...Or am I living... |
WHAT!
Ok, I like the path system, think it works great. Like the hot zone Idea,
But, If your going to introduce more Paths, then you are going to have alot of paths scrapped. IMO if you are going to add more paths, take away all the unused ones, Like the nunchuck ones. Also If you add the Silver sword path, all sword persons will chose that pone over the other one because it simply fits the style of the game much much better. The DL system may need a re-working, but don't scrap it. You should just make it more user-friendly.I like the idea of the Fu stat, thats cool, and I think we can handle it.
Thats just my opinion
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Jan 3rd, 2004 06:58 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
The Nunchuk path is only half finished, remember... but I believe Fire wants to take it.
I cannot just not use powers because no-one takes them. First of all, bad guys use them. Secondly, no-one took Block powers at first, But since Cloud fought the Go Twins, two players took them immediately! That is the kind of progression I like.
The Path system- or more precisely, the Basic/Advanced/Master system, because the Paths would still be there- works nice and simply for on-line play which is by far the best reason to keep it. It's just a bit restrictive, is all. For example, everyone HAS to buy a level in Storm Turtle and Leaping Storm, basically. if you could pick powers, you could just take the couple of powers you want from each and not worry about the rest. And I cannot make my Aeneas example the way I want it... heh...
Frankly, I am more worried no-one will take Silver Prince. I know Fire has said he would stick with Jade Emperor.
As for the Download system- don't worry, I am minded to keep it, I was probably just trying to scare people. I am going to work on ways to keep it together.
Thankyou for your opinions!
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 3rd, 2004 at 07:05 PM
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Jan 3rd, 2004 07:02 PM |
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Tptmanno1
Life Ponder-er
Gender: Male
Location: Dreaming...Or am I living... |
ok, sounds good
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Jan 3rd, 2004 07:08 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Mind you, I agree Silver Prince fits the theme better. But that everyone has taken Katanas shows that everyone kinda likes the Samurai ethic. Silver Prince is a Path one would use with a scimitar.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 3rd, 2004 07:10 PM |
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Fire
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: On vacation |
hmmm most changes sounds good
I certainly like:
- The Mind Stat, no offence to this system, but it is combat oriented (feel that will change soon), and then Vets kinda lose their appeal -I don't mind vets are cool- so with the mind stat it might show to ppl that vets aren't that unbalanced to others
-more flexible character creation would be good: tho as you said ush, I doubt much would go into body since it doesn't affect guns or MA
-Tree like system, sounds better bit confusing maybe at first but with certain graphics it should be doable
-More paths: Always a nice idea
-Hot Zone Mark II: WILL ACTUALY BE USED
-Abandoning the entire system: possible but it will prolly take a long time and I don't think players would like to wait
__________________
Be smart, be cool, be sexy = be LIBERAL!
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Jan 3rd, 2004 07:52 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
greater character fexibility is always a good thing.....so i agree with everything that promotes that. mind, new paths, etc.
though...you'll have to choose between new paths and removing the paths system 
i know the diablo II system and i understand what you're saying...so..if paths are removed..i have nothing against it.
i think i like the hotzone too...
now..removing the whole dload system...well..that mean remaking the characters allover again. don't get me wrong..i'm up for it...so..if it's necessary...why not..whatever makes a better system.
now..as i've already told you.......who'd want a scimitar when i can have the precious katana?  (don't answer that  )
jade all the way...but....the silver prince might be desired by others..
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:08 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Bear in mind that of all games, Matrix is always going to be the most combat orientated...
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:09 PM |
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Peach
mordrem
 Gender: Female
Location: verdant brink Moderator |
Okay, no killing the download system. I like the sounds of the Mind stat and the Fu stat, and the more flexible character creation (that was the biggest thing about the new system that I liked). Dumping the paths would be a huge mess but may actually work out better in the end (though I have to say that I HATED the path tree thing in Diablo II...), anyway there are some powers in paths that I don't have but would like. New paths are always good, and I like the idea of the new Hot Zone.
Those are my thoughts on the possible changes...
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:17 PM |
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SpikeSpiegel
Swimming Bird
 Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom |
Hmmmm I like it the way it is, but I'm sure whatever you do it will benifit all. Providing I can keep all my cool MA paths.
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:18 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Oooh, hating Diablo II sounds bad... what was it you did not like about it, Tm?
You surely could, Spike. However, player disruption is something I am anxious to avoid, having asked so much of you guys already...
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 3rd, 2004 at 08:27 PM
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:22 PM |
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REXXXX
Networking
 Gender: Male
Location: San Diego Moderator |
I'm sure BB will like that Silver Prince Path, if you decide to add it.
I'd kinda like to stay close to the Path system we have now. Works easier for me.
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:23 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
So noted! Thankyou.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:28 PM |
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Bespin Bart
Buggy
 Gender: Male
Location: Everywhere |
Indeed, Silver Prince sounds good! Cloud can be our Jade Emperor for the Combat Path while I'm the Silver Prince.
__________________
THIS IS WHAT WE'VE WAITED FOR
THIS IS IT, BOYS, THIS IS WAR!
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:30 PM |
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Peach
mordrem
Gender: Female
Location: verdant brink Moderator |
No no no, I didn't say I hated Diablo II, I love the game, actually. I just disliked the Path Tree thing.
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:31 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
i kind of like the diablo path system. it's nice when you're good in something, but it's hard to be good at multiple things...but maybe this system is different
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:32 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Yup yup, I know, TM, what was it you did not like about it? I want to judge if you would not like this either.
The problem here would be sheer logistics. Can you be bothered to pick all your powers and write down what you took?
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:35 PM |
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Peach
mordrem
Gender: Female
Location: verdant brink Moderator |
Writing down all the powers wouldn't be a problem (hell I'm considereing printing out a list of the all the powers in the paths I currently have since I can't remember half of them most of the time)...and pretty much what Dexx said was what I didn't really like...made it hard to be good in multiple things. I don't really remember, actually, as it's been a year since I've really played Diablo (the game dislikes my computer), but I just remember not liking the path tree.
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:39 PM |
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Bespin Bart
Buggy
Gender: Male
Location: Everywhere |
*feels ignored*
__________________
THIS IS WHAT WE'VE WAITED FOR
THIS IS IT, BOYS, THIS IS WAR!
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Jan 3rd, 2004 08:41 PM |
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