IF this has been discussed before I apologize, and hope a helpful soul will point me in the direction of the correct thread...
I just saw Episode 1 again on Danish TV and was struck by something which I do not understand.
When Obi-Wan and Yoda dies they slowly vanish and pass into the Force ... why doesn't that happen to Qin-Gon?
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Well, I realize that in Episode III Yoda tells Obi-Wan that "an old friend" has found his way from the Netherworlds of the Force (or some such).
Sa at that time I thougt maybe very strong and old and wise Jedis would have this ability...
But then... When Vader returns to his "old self" and dies a Jedi, he doesn't disappear either... yet we see Anakin at the very end of Episode VI with Yoda and Obi-Wan... ?
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Did somewhere Lucas "promise" that mystery would be revealed in some speech or interview, or what exactly were his words about why jedis fade in and out?
People, It's a movie. When Lucas was making an Original trilogy he din't even think about that kind of stuff. And why would he suddently put a character of Qui-Gon in, it wouldn't make sense. Imagine if, or example, Qui-Gon would be in the last scene of episode VI. It wouldn't make sense to the audience.
Qui gon learned the force ghost thing after he died, then he told Yoda while he was meditating in EP III. Then Yoda taught Obiwan. Anakin learned it after death just like Quigon.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Just to answer that:
1. No, old, wise Jedi Masters don't do it. It has never happened before. That's vitally important, else Vader would know it was possible, which he did not.
2. Indication from Lucasfilm has bene that the idea is that Vader did vanish, inside the suit.
How he knew how to do it is another thing entirely.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
the problem with that: vader was already dead, while yoda and ben vanished either a split second before or after they died. so the common reply would be that anakin disappeared on the deathstar. but if that was the case, why did luke take the suit with him? if anakin was gone, then all that remained was an empty suit which only symbolised the man who "betrayed and murdered" anakin.
anyway, he could have known how because of ben or yoda instructing him as he died.
No, Vader was not already dead. He was dying but he was not completely dead yet. Laying back and closing your eyes does not equal dead. It's the same way Yoda died, with his head back and his eyes closed.
It was probably the same thing that happened to Qui Gon, they both died, got cremated, then went to the ghost after life a short while later after figuring it or something.... I doubt Yoda or Obi Wan would teach him some advanced technique at spirit immortality in a few seconds. Plus he would have to have been taught while he was alive, and he died right in front of our eyes.
so you imply he was just sleeping on the shuttle?
yoda died as soon as his eyes closed, since as soon as that
happened he vanished. if you want to get scientific, then the
mind operates for about a half a minute or so after the body dies.
so maybe that would explain the short gap in time between the time
yoda closed his eyes and when he disappreared. although i hate
mingling science with star wars, its a better explanation than
'he was just closing his eyes'
vader was dead on the death star. he died in lukes arms, as
he and luke both knew he would. when the suit shut down, he
could no longer live, and thus he closed his eyes and died. to
look into that further and disagree is nuts.
Seems to me the only Force Netherworlder Jedi who didn't die was Obi-Wan. Anakin/Vader, Yoda, Qui-Gon, all died in the crude-matter world. Perhaps old Obi-Wan was the wisest of them all.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Yoda faded after eyes closing etc/ Your statement of 'Vader was already dead' is based purely in the idea that he dropped dead there and then that instant.
It's hardly a stretch to say he faded just after that scene.
Luke took the suit with him for the symbolism. Yes, he burnt the empty suit, and all it represented.
Obi-Wan didn;t go in any different circumstances to the others.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
thats great, only i wasnt disagreeing with that...the idea that vader may have died (seconds) after the scene ended.
this is what i dont agree with. the suit represented all that was evil in vader.
if anakin vanished then and there, there was no reason for luke to have any sentiment for a mechanical suit. in fact by doing so he would be seperately honoring the man who betrayed and murdered anakin, a man who was just defeated by anakin, and thus a man which no longer existed on any plane.
Jun 4th, 2006 10:42 PM
