The Terminator series is a LOOP - T2 fails because of this
T3 tries to fix all the mistakes T2 set. T2 basically says Judgement Day was stopped, and that you can change your destiny. However, this contradicts the superior original movie. The fact that there is a scene with Sarah in the Mexican desert to get her photograph taken is the same photograph Reese has in the future shows that there is NO alterante timelines (like how T2 says) and that Kyle and the Terminator were always a part of May, 1984. Judgement Day was not stopped, and because of this you can skip T2 all together and not miss anything on the story. T3 is the true completion of the Terminator story, and although not perfect, is far superior to T2.
T2 was pretty useless (except for the action). It's just a repeat of the first movie; nothing is accomplished. It just... happens. What T2 should've done was what the third did - how Skynet got power, the start of the nuclear warheads going off, etc. etc. instead of the crappiness that was T2. T3 wasn't a good movie but it at least contributes to the story.
I partially agree with you on this except that I think T2 is a great movie!!!
The photo issue is indeed very well noticed and it got me thinking all over again>>>>damnit........
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Einstein was right about human stupidity!
That's similar to what I have been thinking for a while, except that I throw both T2 and T3 out the window and say that T1 is totally self contained. The end of the movie is the start of the casual loop and the rest of the movie is the very end of the loop. The rest is just details.
That said T2 and T3 are both great movies in their own right and they are fun to watch and entertaining. However since both of them undermine each other and more importantly the first film, I tend to look at them as individual movies based on similar events rather than being direct sequels. "What ifs" are how I look at them.
OK basic time paradox: I build a time machine, I go back in time and kill my father before I am born. This is a natural consequence of accepting time travel to the past. You must accept the possibility of a paradox the moment you accept time travel to the past. As, in the context of Terminator movies, we accept time travel, we must also accept a paradox is possible.
Sarahs photograph is no different at all. How can Kyle have it in the future if Sarah has changed the future so that Kyle can't be in the resistance at all. Thats the end of T1, its consistent with simple time paradoxes. Without accepting time paradox you cannot accept time travel - period.
(paralell universes are the easiest but in many ways most ridiculous explanation to grasp).
Maybe judgement day will happen anyway, despite T1. We dont know at the end of T1. But the point is - just because sarah has a visit from Kyle and has a photo taken does not mean that Judgement day will happen. The fiuture is not set to be judgement day at this piint in time. In T2, the terminator is correct in everything it says. It is consistent and logical within the framework of a time paradox and with time travel itself.
Next without the events of T2, T3 cannot happen. For example, if in T2 John was not hunted, if the movie did not exist, he would not have been off the grid in T3 and the Terminator would not have had to hunt down other resistance buddies: just John. Logically, T3 would have been the same movie as T2 - the direct path for T3 terminator to take would have been to kill John. So you are wrong again. T2 is necessary and does alter the story. T2 is the logical choice for the termintaor if John is not off the grid. T3 is forced because of T2.
Finally t1 and t2 movies are quite well respected in film studies. They are fine examples of their genre and a fantastic pair to contrast. T3 is the rehash. A good one, well thought out and directed, but a rehash nevertheless.
Well... I was myself wondering that:
If Judgement Day never happens, then the Terminator never came back in time... so neither did Kyle... therefore, how the hell would John exist when the Terminator's ceased existing? John's existence is dependent on the Terminator's...
Anyone going to tell me I'm a complete moron and that I got it all wrong?
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Thanks to Badwolf for the great sig!
The whole series is a paradox with time travel - the terminators go back in time to change the future, but you don't change the future so much as create alternate ones. The ones who experience these alternate timelines are the ones in the past, living through it all, not the ones in the future. You notice, none of the time travelers are capable of going back to the future to see if they succeeded.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
theoretically time travel into your own past is not possable. there are too many paradoxes. for example if you go back to the past and accidentally stop yourself from being born you cant exist to go back into the past and do that anyway. the only form of timetravel that can theoretically exist is into the future as that is no set yet.
oh god, this stuff gives me a headache
sorry slightly off topic
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Terminator 2 was entertaining, much more so than the first and third. I see the point, but still...oh heck, I can't believe I have nothing to say in defence of my favourite movie!
KMC Community Forums
May 16th, 2006 09:01 AM
Thanks Passione
Why didn't Arnold reject this?
