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If it get's close then Batgirl takes this , unfortunately with prep Castle can sit on top of a roof with an SVG and just wait. Although i hear BG can dodge bullet's.
Once again, the number one reason why people make basic errors on KMC.
They know the character they like very well, but have a dearth of info on the OTHER character. Consequently they end up always hyping up their character without taking into consideration the skills, particulars and capabilities of the OTHER character.
This is why you have ‘certain’ posters saying that Wolverine can beat people like Thor and Superman – they know that Wolverine is a great character, but totally forget to consider the fact that ,against a Norse deity or a Kryptonian, a clawed mutant with a ‘healing factor’ is worse than useless!
Now, you are saying that Frank Castle could easily snipe away at Batgirl. The post below yours automatically ‘co-signs’ your assertion. Then another poster below states that all Castle needs to do is to ‘put a bullet in her’ from a water tower that is 300 yards away.
What does that say?
Well, it says that you all know of Frank’s skill with long-guns and his venerable sniping ability. That he can hit a target anytime/everytime with any gun ranging from a Dragunov to a Barrett .50 cal.
That Castle can reach out at range and take down a character with ease.
Which is 100% correct.
Where you fail is considering what Batgirl (Cassandra) can do! Or maybe you simply don’t know (since a good number here know a whole lot about Marvel characters, including some rather obscure ones, but apparently know nothing about DC characters ……..which is why once upon a time there used to be Flash vs Quicksilver threads, or people assuming that Despero is not a powerful telepath).
David Cain (who is a master assassin in DC, and trained Batman as well as Batgirl – he was her father) was given a contract to kill Batgirl.
He was well over 300 yards away …..he is a perfect shot with a rifle …..shot a slug, and a few inches before it hit Batgirl she sensed it and moved out of the way!
Why?
Because part of Batgirl’s training was to be able to detect shots from snipers simply from the atmospheric over-pressure of the oncoming projectile. Goodness, even Batman has been shown to be able to do this ….the only difference is that Batgirl could do this as a child (since Cain was shooting at her as a child, while she was blindfolded, and she had to move out of the way or have her brains paint the wall crimson).
How then is Castle supposed to, miraculously, snipe at Batgirl?
His bullets would never hit, and all that would do is make her know exactly where he is and it is all over.
For that matter a character with Batgirl’s capabilities (or for that matter Daredevil’s) would probably stand on some rooftop to BAIT Castle INTO shooting, so as to immediately know where he is.
Conclusion:
Castle is good, but his STRENGTHS in this case would be quickly turned into weaknesses by Cassandra (or characters like her, again example Daredevil). Trying to snipe at her would only have one purpose ……making Batgirl know exactly where he is. The most prudent course of action for Castle to do would be to ape what Cain did ……kill the people who put out the hit on Batgirl (Cain did it because they tried to make him kill his own daughter, Frank SHOULD do it to show them how idiotic it is to send a character like him to kill a character that walks between bullets like it was a game of Twister)!
There are better scans ....for example the ones where Cain is shooting at her when she is a child, or the one where he is given a contract against her and she simply moves out of the way of the bullet ....even though she didn't know one was heading her way until it was a few inches from the side of her head.
But basically Castle doesn't have any real tools that he can use to take out Batgirl.
Castle is great, but he is a tad bit out of his league here.
She's dodged sniped rounds from David Cain both as a child (when she expected him to be shooting, but was blindfolded), and as an adult (when she didn't know he was shooting, or for that matter had a contract out for her, and was thus totally unawares of any shot coming her way until the last moment).
If she can detect and evade an unexpected shot from Cain she can do the same exact thing for Castle (an analogue).
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ok...so just because frank "cant" shoot cass means he loses...can cass feel the pressure of an rpg...or clamore mines...frank is no one trick poney, he can kill u in more ways than u can dream up...
And yet, his comics seems to consist mainly of his shooting people.
I think Punisher might be able to kill Cas if someone told him before the start of the fight, "Hey, you know that thing you do where you get within ten feet of the badguy and then try to shoot him? That's not going to work." But by the time Castle figures this out on his own, he'll be spitting up blood.
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Frank is definitely not a one-trick pony, and on top of that I'll be the first to say that he is a really interesting character. Very dynamic, and one of the few comic characters that can literally exist in real life.
To be honest with you I'm amazed that he even survived the crazy (read:stupid) censorship boards that plagued comics in past decades .....after all the Punisher was 'realistic' (read: bullets instead of whizzing laser-pistols and super-strength) and moreover not even a true hero (he is more anti-hero).
The very fact that the Punisher line survived is a minor miracle all by itself, especially at a time when comics were made 'silly' (again, ludicrous villains and weapons that looked like squirt-guns and super-powers that were just implausible) so as not to go against social decorum and propriety.
I also 100% agree that Castle can kill someone in more ways that a person can dream up.
The thing is this though .....I look at Castle, BUT I also look at Cassandra.
Cassandra could come up with more ways to kill a person than Frank Castle could conceptually conceive, and probably at the time she was 8 years of age.
The girl was trained to be an assassin (she was deemed ready for her first kill at the age of 8), and was not only trained by Cain but also by the League of Assassins.
To paraphrase Bullseye; Frank Castle is great (no doubt about that), but Batgirl is magic.
Anyways, Castle could lay a several kiloton range atomic device and detonate it (good luck Batgirl trying to evade a nuclear detonation), but 1) It would also take out the Punisher and 2) YOU said that both thought that the other person was a violent serial killer, and thus I doubt Castle will be scrounging for an atomic device and set it up in 6 hours just to nab a serial killer.
The most likely setup, particularly based on the parameters YOU established, would be either an efficient long-range shot (and most -all- of the people who believe Castle can snipe at Batgirl from '300 yards' obviously went for this), or a brutal beatdown (since he may want to meet out harsher punishment to a serial killer).
Either one is to the Punisher's detriment.
H2H he is a toy compared to Batgirl.
Long-range his attacks have no efficacy since to kill Batgirl his bullets would have to penetrate her suit, and to penetrate her suit the bullets would have to hit her suit, and to hit her suit she would have to be positioned in the same locus that Castle was aiming at.
Problem is she will sense the shot/shots and be already moving towards Castle by the time the first bullet passes through where she was standing.
Anyways .....long story short.
Punisher is THE man.
For many many many reasons (ranging from good story lines in general to a 'real' character with truly human/realworld issues, to the fact he is a miracle-man to have survived the inane censorship of prior decades). Castle is a king!
Only problem here is that he is facing Batgirl.
How did that childhood mockery line go? "Anything he can do she can do better / she can do anything better than him .......
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Last edited by spetznaz on May 10th, 2006 at 03:58 PM
Calling Punisher realistic character isn't really correct. He is MUCH stronger than any other trained human and even in h2h he could give Batgirl some trouble.
Frank uses a lot of traps and such in Marvel Knights as I recall, and her dodgeing sniper bullets is only caused by the jobber aura that comes with the bat themed costume
And she cant dodge Frank sweeping an area with an m60 or minigun
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KMC Community Forums
Punisher vs. BATgirl
Jan 17th, 2006 03:03 PM
